Zero acceleration = zero net force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between net force and acceleration, particularly in the context of a truck moving at constant velocity. Participants explore the forces acting on the truck, including gravitational, normal, applied, and frictional forces, and question how these forces balance out to result in zero net force despite the truck's motion.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that for an object moving at constant velocity, the net force must be zero, as per Newton's first law.
  • Others argue that the applied force must initially exceed the frictional forces for the truck to start moving, but once in motion, the forces can balance out.
  • A participant questions the definition of applied force, suggesting that it should be considered in terms of external forces rather than internal forces from the engine.
  • Some participants propose that the propulsive force is a frictional force, which adds complexity to the naming of forces involved.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of reference frames, where the perception of motion can differ based on the observer's state of motion.
  • One participant mentions that if the applied force were greater than the frictional force, the truck would accelerate, indicating that the forces must be equal when the truck moves at constant velocity.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of components of weight affecting movement on inclines, suggesting that the analysis of forces must consider the direction of motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of forces acting on the truck and the conditions under which net force can be considered zero. There is no consensus on the definitions and implications of applied versus frictional forces, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining forces in motion, particularly in relation to reference frames and the influence of external conditions such as incline and friction. There are unresolved questions about the definitions and roles of various forces involved in the scenario.

  • #31
sophiecentaur said:
It's the same with Work By and Work Done. It's just Work with a sign which depends on your measurement frame.
The sign of work doesn't just depend on the reference frame, but also on whether the value represents work done by A on B, or by B on A. These are two completely different issues, that can affect the sign of work.
 
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  • #32
A.T. said:
These are two completely different issues
Maybe but they are both viewed in an intuitive way.
A.T. said:
but also on whether the value represents work done by A on B, or by B on A.
It's only by knowing the displacement and the force that you can decide what's on what. In a scenario of say two jet engines pushing against each other you can pass through the condition where the net FTD changes sign. Or are you saying that the frame of reference is involved? Perhaps if you made your statement in a different way, I'd understand what your are saying.
 
  • #33
sophiecentaur said:
Maybe but they are both viewed in an intuitive way.
That is no reason to conflate them.
sophiecentaur said:
It's only by knowing the displacement and the force that you can decide what's on what.
Yes, from these two you can compute work.
sophiecentaur said:
Perhaps if you made your statement in a different way, I'd understand what your are saying.
This has been explained to you so many times in previous threads. Just reread them instead of hijacking another one.
 
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  • #34
This thread has run its course, and after some editing it has been closed. Thanks to all who tried to offer clear explanations.
 
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