Proof of the total differential of f(x,y)?

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    Differential Proof
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the proof of the total differential of a function of two variables, specifically exploring the expression Δz ≈ (∂z/∂x)Δx + (∂z/∂y)Δy. Participants are examining the geometric interpretation and mathematical justification for this approximation, with a focus on the underlying principles rather than simply accepting it as a definition.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using a tangent plane at a point (x0, y0) to illustrate the relationship between the changes in z and the changes in x and y.
  • Another participant proposes starting from the expression f(x+Δx, y+Δy) - f(x,y) and breaking it down into parts to facilitate the proof.
  • A different perspective involves treating x and y as functions of a parameter t and applying the chain rule to derive the total differential, although this raises concerns about the dependency on the chain rule itself.
  • There is a reiteration that the goal is to demonstrate that differential approximations are valid, rather than simply accepting them as definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying approaches to the proof, with no consensus on a single method or resolution of the underlying questions. The discussion remains open-ended, with multiple perspectives on how to approach the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the challenge of proving the chain rule without first establishing the total differential, indicating a potential circular reasoning issue in their approaches.

Curl
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If I have a smooth, continuous function of 2 variables, z=f(x,y)

I want to show what Δz ≈ (∂z/∂x)Δx + (∂z/∂y)Δy

Most places I've seen call this a definition, but it's not really that obvious. I know that it makes perfect sense geometrically, but I want a little more.

One way I thought of approaching it is to put a tangent plane at the point x0 y0 and show that going along x then along y is like cutting diagonally across to x,y.
Basically I need to show that f(x+Δx ,y+Δy) = f(x+Δx, y) +f(x, y+Δy) - f(x,y).

Unfortunately I'm not good at math, not good at proofs, tired, and a bit busy/lazy :), so I'm calling in the troops. Thanks!
 
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Hi Curl! :smile:

Try starting with f(x+Δx ,y+Δy) - f(x,y)

= f(x+Δx, y+∆y) - f(x+Δx, y) + f(x+Δx, y) - f(x, y). :wink:
 
Another way of looking at it is this: suppose x and y were functions of some parameter, t.

Then f(t)= f(x(t),y(t)) and, by the chain rule,
\frac{df}{dt}= \frac{\partial f}{\partial x}\frac{dx}{dt}+ \frac{\partial f}{\partial y}\frac{dy}{dt}
In terms of the differential, we can write that as
df= \frac{df}{dt}dt= \left(\frac{\partial f}{\partial x}\frac{dx}{dt}+ \frac{\partial f}{\partial y}\frac{dy}{dt}\right)dt= \frac{\partial f}{\partial x}dx+ \frac{\partial f}{\partial y}dy
which is now independent of t.
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi Curl! :smile:

Try starting with f(x+Δx ,y+Δy) - f(x,y)

= f(x+Δx, y+∆y) - f(x+Δx, y) + f(x+Δx, y) - f(x, y). :wink:
hehehe, clever! thanks.
And yes, I've thought of using the chain rule, but at this point we can't prove the chain rule without proving this. So it's like the chicken and the egg.
 
Last edited:
Curl said:
If I have a smooth, continuous function of 2 variables, z=f(x,y)

I want to show what Δz ≈ (∂z/∂x)Δx + (∂z/∂y)Δy

Most places I've seen call this a definition, but it's not really that obvious. I know that it makes perfect sense geometrically, but I want a little more.
Just FYI, it sounds like what you are really asking for is a demonstration differential approximations are good approximations.
 

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