16-Year-Old Looking for Math/Physics Job

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A 16-year-old high school student seeks a job in math or physics to support their family, expressing frustration over their qualifications despite self-taught knowledge in calculus and physics concepts. The discussion highlights the rarity of internships in these fields for high school students, with suggestions to explore opportunities at local manufacturers or power plants. Critics emphasize the importance of formal education and foundational knowledge in physics, cautioning against overestimating personal competency. The conversation also touches on the practicality of pursuing jobs in more accessible fields like information technology, which may offer better financial stability. Ultimately, the student is encouraged to focus on building their skills through formal education while exploring available job options.
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I'm a 16 year old high school student, and I really need money (for family support). I've been wondering, is there any kind of job where I could work in the area of math or physics? (By the way, I assure you I'd be qualified.) I'm already pulling a job at Hy-Vee, but I'm not a blue collar person. Is there some sort of internship that I'm missing, or am I pretty much doomed?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Are there any manufacturers close to where you live? Even if they aren't advertising for a position, they might be interested in an intern.

Out of curiosity, what math/physics are you taking?
 
Wellesley said:
Are there any manufacturers close to where you live? Even if they aren't advertising for a position, they might be interested in an intern.

Out of curiosity, what math/physics are you taking?

I don't know of any manufacturers. Can you be more specific about what you mean by those? Are you talking about making things, or working at a university?

This is sad, because here I have to tell you that I'm in Honors Pre-Calculus, and I have not yet had a physics class. I know that doesn't look good on a transcript, the problem is that I have taught myself Calculus and I know quite a lot of physics. I have a unification theory that has been looked at by a few professors from a couple colleges nearby, and they say it is quote, "plausible." I know QM and Relativity very well conceptually, but the math of both is still a bit beyond me. I am learning, though, but what is that worth to managers and professors? - read sarcastically

Am I still doomed?
 
benk99nenm312 said:
I don't know of any manufacturers. Can you be more specific about what you mean by those? Are you talking about making things, or working at a university?

This is sad, because here I have to tell you that I'm in Honors Pre-Calculus, and I have not yet had a physics class. I know that doesn't look good on a transcript, the problem is that I have taught myself Calculus and I know quite a lot of physics. I have a unification theory that has been looked at by a few professors from a couple colleges nearby, and they say it is quote, "plausible." I know QM and Relativity very well conceptually, but the math of both is still a bit beyond me. I am learning, though, but what is that worth to managers and professors? - read sarcastically

Am I still doomed?

Companies (usually the larger ones) offer internships for high school students, and Co ops for college students. Although it may not be in the area of Physics, or math, it would probably be dealing with some sort of science.

Looking around Omaha NE, I found these companies that have plants nearby. You could try and talk with them and see if they'd be willing to take on an intern.

http://www.insulfoam.com/index.php?...id=53:plant-locations-a-directions&Itemid=111

http://www.siteselection.com/features/2007/nov/nebraska/

Your best bet might be at your local power plant, if it's close.
 
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Wellesley said:
Companies (usually the larger ones) offer internships for high school students, and Co ops for college students. Although it may not be in the area of Physics, or math, it would probably be dealing with some sort of science.

Looking around Omaha NE, I found these companies that have plants nearby. You could try and talk with them and see if they'd be willing to take on an intern.

http://www.insulfoam.com/index.php?...id=53:plant-locations-a-directions&Itemid=111

http://www.siteselection.com/features/2007/nov/nebraska/

Your best bet might be at your local power plant, if it's close.

Thanks a million. How did you know I lived in NE?
 
benk99nenm312 said:
Thanks a million. How did you know I lived in NE?

Your public profile :wink:

To see it, click your user name in the upper right corner of the screen, below the quick links.
 
Let's be honest... you're 16 and don't really know much math or physics at all. If you don't know the math behind QM and GR, then you don't know QM and GR... so your attempt at a unified theory is almost guaranteed to be wrong. If I were you I'd drop the bravado and begin concentrating on what you don't know, rather than what you do.

Power plants, science museums, etc. might be able to offer you an interesting job, but really, there aren't many jobs in science and math even for people with doctoral degrees in the subjects!

- Warren
 
chroot said:
Let's be honest... you're 16 and don't really know much math or physics at all. If you don't know the math behind QM and GR, then you don't know QM and GR... so your attempt at a unified theory is almost guaranteed to be wrong. If I were you I'd drop the bravado and begin concentrating on what you don't know, rather than what you do.

Power plants, science museums, etc. might be able to offer you an interesting job, but really, there aren't many jobs in science and math even for people with doctoral degrees in the subjects!

- Warren



Agreed.



I was once in that mindset of telling myself how I could "teach myself" or "learn" about these various theories in physics like Quantum Mechanics, Relativity, and the like, by just reading the general concepts in text, no mathematical explanations, proofs, derivations.

Boy, was I wrong.


Unfortunately, there are many people who can simply read up a wikipedia article or read a more mainstream, science oriented book, and feel as if they have been enlightened, so it's more common than you think.

Generally speaking, from the people I know, those who do manage to get some sort of work at a more...technical work place have only managed to land "busy work" type positions, ie - bookkeeping, repetitive, low technical skill required lab positions, and organizing data. And those were classmates of mine taking on AP Physics BC, Chem AP, Calc BC courses, too. I wouldn't expect anything too much at this point in time.
 
chroot said:
Let's be honest... you're 16 and don't really know much math or physics at all. If you don't know the math behind QM and GR, then you don't know QM and GR... so your attempt at a unified theory is almost guaranteed to be wrong. If I were you I'd drop the bravado and begin concentrating on what you don't know, rather than what you do.

Power plants, science museums, etc. might be able to offer you an interesting job, but really, there aren't many jobs in science and math even for people with doctoral degrees in the subjects!

- Warren

Thanks for your, uh, how should I put this 'friendly advice'. You sound a lot like a professor I talked to once. Everyone tells me the same thing. You seem angry, as if I somehow offended you by wanting a job in the area of physics. You would be surprised at how much I do know, but I admit that their is much I don't know. Dreaming big is not a sin. Honestly, please, don't put me down.
 
  • #10
I'm not trying to put you down -- I'm trying to bring you back to reality. I applaud your enthusiasm, and am sure you will go on to do big things with your life. Unfortunately, your post is offensive to me, because you're claiming competency you clearly do not actually have. Anyone interviewing you for a job will be equally offended.

Also, for what it's worth, kids come through here all the time claiming greatness beyond compare. It's just part of being sixteen, I guess, but hearing it over and over gets old.

- Warren
 
  • #11
aerospaceut10 said:
Agreed.



I was once in that mindset of telling myself how I could "teach myself" or "learn" about these various theories in physics like Quantum Mechanics, Relativity, and the like, by just reading the general concepts in text, no mathematical explanations, proofs, derivations.

Boy, was I wrong.


Unfortunately, there are many people who can simply read up a wikipedia article or read a more mainstream, science oriented book, and feel as if they have been enlightened, so it's more common than you think.

Generally speaking, from the people I know, those who do manage to get some sort of work at a more...technical work place have only managed to land "busy work" type positions, ie - bookkeeping, repetitive, low technical skill required lab positions, and organizing data. And those were classmates of mine taking on AP Physics BC, Chem AP, Calc BC courses, too. I wouldn't expect anything too much at this point in time.

Just to clarify, by teaching myself, I actually mean teaching. I get ahold of the textbooks, and if I don't understand something, I go to teachers, or I go here. I don't think I know everything. That would be silly to think that.

My theory is mostly conceptual, as you may have guessed. Everyday, someone comes up with a new outlook on the universe. Everyday, someone is wrong. Statistically, I should be too. I don't blame you for trying to tell me the hard truth. What you will learn is that I'm stubborn, and no matter what the odds, I keep at it.
 
  • #12
chroot said:
I'm not trying to put you down -- I'm trying to bring you back to reality. I applaud your enthusiasm, and am sure you will go on to do big things with your life. Unfortunately, your post is offensive to me, because you're claiming competency you clearly do not actually have. Anyone interviewing you for a job will be equally offended.

Also, for what it's worth, kids come through here all the time claiming greatness beyond compare. It's just part of being sixteen, I guess, but hearing it over and over gets old.

- Warren

I don't mean to be conceited in any way, but I think competency is a quality one measures accurately if and only if they know the person well enough. I don't think I'm Einstein here, but I work hard to know the things I do.

In reality, you're right. no one would probably hire me. I'm just a little desperate at the time being.
 
  • #13
benk99nenm312 said:
Just to clarify, by teaching myself, I actually mean teaching. I get ahold of the textbooks, and if I don't understand something, I go to teachers, or I go here.

You are not the first person to attempt to teach himself by reading textbooks and asking occasional questions. That method is admirable, but is unfortunately nowhere near as good as taking actual classes taught by experts in the field.

My theory is mostly conceptual, as you may have guessed. Everyday, someone comes up with a new outlook on the universe. Everyday, someone is wrong. Statistically, I should be too. I don't blame you for trying to tell me the hard truth. What you will learn is that I'm stubborn, and no matter what the odds, I keep at it.

There is absolutely no point in trying to extend mankind's understanding of physics without understanding mankind's current knowledge of physics first. I hope we can both agree on that.

Being stubborn can be a virtue, but A's in a few physics classes will help you a great deal more than stubbornness.

- Warren
 
  • #14
By the way, if your goal is to support your family, I should mention that jobs in mathematics and physics research are some of the rarest and least-paying jobs around, at least in terms of dollars per unit effort.

As others have said, you'd be much more likely to find a job working with computers or business information technology, and there's a lot of useful stuff to learn there -- even though it's not as "glamorous" as being a physicist.

When I was 16, I worked for Time-Warner Cable in their administrative office. I mostly did daily chores involving database maintenance, but I also wrote some small programs and repaired some big computers in sites all across the state. It was a perfect job for my level of competence, and I was paid quite well. Maybe you could look into such a position in your area.

- Warren
 
  • #15
chroot said:
You are not the first person to attempt to teach himself by reading textbooks and asking occasional questions. That method is admirable, but is unfortunately nowhere near as good as taking actual classes taught by experts in the field.



There is absolutely no point in trying to extend mankind's understanding of physics without understanding mankind's current knowledge of physics first. I hope we can both agree on that.

Being stubborn can be a virtue, but A's in a few physics classes will help you a great deal more than stubbornness.

- Warren

I have no option at the time being to take any classes. Next year, I have my first physics class. I have no other way to learn.

I agree with you on the knowledge part. What I have noticed is that sometimes the current knowledge is full of fallacies. I have not met one person on this Earth that can tell me the difference between a field and an ether. We have some fancy math in QFT that gives us more meaning to a field, but what is a field? What is it comprised of? For that matter, particles are described as excitation in these fields according to QFT, so do we really know what a partcle is?

The current understanding of physics is poor. I don't understand how some can justify understanding it. To get a better understanding requires thinking outside the box, and therefore, beyond the now. That is all I am doing.
 
  • #16
chroot said:
By the way, if your goal is to support your family, I should mention that jobs in mathematics and physics research are some of the rarest and least-paying jobs around, at least in terms of dollars per unit effort.

As others have said, you'd be much more likely to find a job working with computers or business information technology, and there's a lot of useful stuff to learn there -- even though it's not as "glamorous" as being a physicist.

When I was 16, I worked for Time-Warner Cable in their administrative office. I mostly did daily chores involving database maintenance, but I also wrote some small programs and repaired some big computers in sites all across the state. It was a perfect job for my level of competence, and I was paid quite well. Maybe you could look into such a position in your area.

- Warren

I thank you for the input. I'm honestly terrible with computers. I think math and physics is the only thing I remotely have any skills in, besides playing piano and drums, which is sad, because you're right, it wouldn't pay much.
 
  • #17
benk99nenm312 said:
I have not met one person on this Earth that can tell me the difference between a field and an ether.
A field is a mathematical formalism that assigns a value (scalar, vector, or tensor) to every point in some space. An ether is a substance that fills space and has the mechanical properties necessary for light to propagate through it.
We have some fancy math in QFT that gives us more meaning to a field, but what is a field? What is it comprised of? For that matter, particles are described as excitation in these fields according to QFT, so do we really know what a partcle is?
No, we don't "really know" what a particle is. We have mathematical models which predict the behavior of the particles. To some, that seems like an admission of failure, but it is not. We cannot ever have any "human experience" of what it means to be an electron -- the very concepts of "sight" and "touch" do not apply to them. The very best we can do is to develop a model which describes their behavior.
The current understanding of physics is poor. I don't understand how some can justify understanding it. To get a better understanding requires thinking outside the box, and therefore, beyond the now. That is all I am doing.
You have never taken a single physics class. How on Earth do you think you are fit to judge the entire science as "poor?" :rolleyes:

You are well on your way to becoming an arrogant, self-assured crackpot.

- Warren
 
  • #18
benk99nenm312 said:
What you will learn is that I'm stubborn

Getting back to the original question, stubbornness, arrogance, and thinking entry-level work is somehow beneath you are not endearing traits to many employers. I'm a professional physicist, and when I was 16 I stuffed envelopes for a job. Thousands upon thousands of envelopes. After a couple years, they let me move to the factory where I made cardboard boxes for shipping, and finally worked my way up to a punch press.

I would suggest when communicating with prospective employers that you tone this down as much as you can.
 
  • #19
Exactly my point, Vanadium 50. Well said. I'm sometimes shocked at the sense of entitlement that kids can develop.

I've totally read some textbooks, you know, enough to realize that they're all wrong. I deserve a job doing physics, because, come on, I'm clearly so smart that I deserve one. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie!

- Warren
 
  • #20
chroot said:
A field is a mathematical formalism that assigns a value (scalar, vector, or tensor) to every point in some space. An ether is a substance that fills space and has the mechanical properties necessary for light to propagate through it.

No, we don't "really know" what a particle is. We have mathematical models which predict the behavior of the particles. To some, that seems like an admission of failure, but it is not. We cannot ever have any "human experience" of what it means to be an electron -- the very concepts of "sight" and "touch" do not apply to them. The very best we can do is to develop a model which describes their behavior.

You have never taken a single physics class. How on Earth do you think you are fit to judge the entire science as "poor?" :rolleyes:

You are well on your way to becoming an arrogant, self-assured crackpot.

- Warren

Defining the field as "numbers in space" shouldn't detract from the idea that it has physical reality. “It occupies space. It contains energy. Its presence eliminates a true vacuum.” The vacuum is free of matter, but not free of field. The field creates a "condition in space.” This sounds a lot like an ether to me. An ether fills up space. It is always present...

In QFT, a photon is regarded as an excitation of the field. Without the field, there is no way that light could exist, or travel. In a similar way, an ether allows for the propagation of light through a vacuum. The ether just doesn’t explain how it allows for light to travel.

I think a field is a more sophisticated version of an ether. If you think otherwise, tell me why. But what is a field, besides numbers. Does a field exist in reality, because the last time I checked, numbers were an invention of man, not God.
 
  • #21
Vanadium 50 said:
Getting back to the original question, stubbornness, arrogance, and thinking entry-level work is somehow beneath you are not endearing traits to many employers. I'm a professional physicist, and when I was 16 I stuffed envelopes for a job. Thousands upon thousands of envelopes. After a couple years, they let me move to the factory where I made cardboard boxes for shipping, and finally worked my way up to a punch press.

I would suggest when communicating with prospective employers that you tone this down as much as you can.

I don't think that blue collar work is beneath anyone, including myself. I just wish I could do something else, so that's what I have been working at for a while now.
 
  • #22
benk99nenm312 said:
Defining the field as "numbers in space" shouldn't detract from the idea that it has physical reality.
Fields do not have any physical reality. No physicist ever said they did.
“It occupies space. It contains energy. Its presence eliminates a true vacuum.” The vacuum is free of matter, but not free of field. The field creates a "condition in space.” This sounds a lot like an ether to me. An ether fills up space. It is always present...
The ether, if it existed, would have been a tangible thing. Its wind would have been felt when moving through space. Fields, on the other hand, are just mathematical formalisms. If you wish to make up your own meanings for terms that already have well-defined meanings, speaking with you will be a waste of my time.
I think a field is a more sophisticated version of an ether. If you think otherwise, tell me why. But what is a field, besides numbers. Does a field exist in reality, because the last time I checked, numbers were an invention of man, not God.
No, fields do not exist in reality. Echo, echo, echo...

- Warren
 
  • #23
Vanadium 50 said:
Getting back to the original question, stubbornness, arrogance, and thinking entry-level work is somehow beneath you are not endearing traits to many employers. I'm a professional physicist, and when I was 16 I stuffed envelopes for a job. Thousands upon thousands of envelopes. After a couple years, they let me move to the factory where I made cardboard boxes for shipping, and finally worked my way up to a punch press.

I would suggest when communicating with prospective employers that you tone this down as much as you can.

I must have missed where the OP said "entry-level work" was beneath him.
benk99nenm312;2156629... said:
I'm already pulling a job at Hy-Vee...

Searching on google, Hy-Vee is basically a grocery store.

chroot said:
As others have said, you'd be much more likely to find a job working with computers or business information technology, and there's a lot of useful stuff to learn there -- even though it's not as "glamorous" as being a physicist.

When I was 16, I worked for Time-Warner Cable in their administrative office. I mostly did daily chores involving database maintenance, but I also wrote some small programs and repaired some big computers in sites all across the state. It was a perfect job for my level of competence, and I was paid quite well. Maybe you could look into such a position in your area.

- Warren

I think he was just looking for a better job than he currently has, at a grocery store...
 
  • #24
chroot said:
Exactly my point, Vanadium 50. Well said. I'm sometimes shocked at the sense of entitlement that kids can develop.

I've totally read some textbooks, you know, enough to realize that they're all wrong. I deserve a job doing physics, because, come on, I'm clearly so smart that I deserve one. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie!

- Warren

I think you've completely lost it. What gives you this impression of me? Have you never met somone who wanted a better job? I'm shocked at how childish a PF mentor is acting. Critisizing me like that... you honestly should look at your last post here. I don't want to be your enemy. I don't want to be your vision of an evil child. Clearly, you have the wrong impression of me.
 
  • #25
chroot said:
Fields do not have any physical reality. No physicist ever said they did.

The ether, if it existed, would have been a tangible thing. Its wind would have been felt when moving through space. Fields, on the other hand, are just mathematical formalisms. If you wish to make up your own meanings for terms that already have well-defined meanings, speaking with you will be a waste of my time.

No, fields do not exist in reality. Echo, echo, echo...

- Warren

I found this information on fields by googling them. I know you don't agree with this, but it's not the first time I've heard that information before, so I'm surprised to here that it's wrong.
 
  • #26
What gives me that impression of you?

Here are the facts:

1) You've never taken any physics classes, and haven't yet reached calculus.
2) You think you know enough about physics to declare it wrong.
3) You think you know enough about physics to deserve a paying job doing it.

Your assertions in this thread are laughable, benk99nenm312. Unfortunately, you won't just take the lumps and move on with your life -- you want to keep arguing. You've been given several good suggestions on ways to get a better job, a job that will educate and empower you, at a level that's actually appropriate for your skills. What more do you want from us?

- Warren
 
  • #27
benk99nenm312 said:
I found this information on fields by googling them. I know you don't agree with this, but it's not the first time I've heard that information before, so I'm surprised to here that it's wrong.

Right, because all serious professional physicists learned about physics via Google.

- Warren
 
  • #28
chroot said:
What gives me that impression of you?

Here are the facts:

1) You've never taken any physics classes, and haven't yet reached calculus.
2) You think you know enough about physics to declare it wrong.
3) You think you know enough about physics to deserve a paying job doing it.

Your assertions in this thread are laughable, benk99nenm312. Unfortunately, you won't just take the lumps and move on with your life -- you want to keep arguing. You've been given several good suggestions on ways to get a better job, a job that will educate and empower you, at a level that's actually appropriate for your skills. What more do you want from us?

- Warren

I guess I have no more use for you.
 
  • #29
Getting back to the original question I'm not sure of anything you could do at your age directly involving physics without any certified competance. One option might be working in a lab if there are any universities nearby. This is unlikely to pay well (and in fact it is more likely to be a volunteer position).

Another idea might be to start your own business. I have no idea what marketable skills you have, but if you do a self-assessment there's probably something there. A couple years ago my wife bought a kit and built her own kayak, which is easily worth about twice the price of the kit - and she wasn't particularly skilled in workworking. Something like that could easily be turned into a business and it would develop some hands-on skills. At a friend's wedding the videographers were a couple of engineering undergrads who taped weddings on weekends and they got paid very well for it. Man... if I had it to do over again...
 
  • #30
chroot said:
Right, because all serious professional physicists learned about physics via Google.

- Warren

hahahahaha, I'm going to have to remember this quote.
 
  • #31
benk99nenm312 said:
I think you've completely lost it. What gives you this impression of me? Have you never met somone who wanted a better job? I'm shocked at how childish a PF mentor is acting. Critisizing me like that... you honestly should look at your last post here. I don't want to be your enemy. I don't want to be your vision of an evil child. Clearly, you have the wrong impression of me.



Clearly, you aren't aware of your arrogant attitude you are portraying with the posts you've made.


You seriously need to learn how to be more humble and accept the fact that you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.
 
  • #32
benk99nenm312 said:
I have no option at the time being to take any classes. Next year, I have my first physics class. I have no other way to learn.

I agree with you on the knowledge part. What I have noticed is that sometimes the current knowledge is full of fallacies. I have not met one person on this Earth that can tell me the difference between a field and an ether. We have some fancy math in QFT that gives us more meaning to a field, but what is a field? What is it comprised of? For that matter, particles are described as excitation in these fields according to QFT, so do we really know what a partcle is?

The current understanding of physics is poor.
I don't understand how some can justify understanding it. To get a better understanding requires thinking outside the box, and therefore, beyond the now. That is all I am doing.


Excuse me, but how exactly do you justify this statement?


I suppose the underlying physics that we use in day to day life, like the thermodynamic properties/cycles that go into operating your car, flying the airplane, and the construction of all the goods you use, are done completely on accident?
 
  • #33
The current understanding of physics is poor.
If he study physics seriously, one day he'll realize he'll never know "the current understand of physics" because it is simply too vast and too deep.
I've learned many things on PF, one is that learning about physics is totally different from learning physics.
 
  • #34
aerospaceut10 said:
Excuse me, but how exactly do you justify this statement?


I suppose the underlying physics that we use in day to day life, like the thermodynamic properties/cycles that go into operating your car, flying the airplane, and the construction of all the goods you use, are done completely on accident?

When I posted that quote, I was referring to the deeper physics. Perturbation theory is a great example. The concept of virtual particles is hazy, because Perturbation theory describes virtual particles in mathematical expansions, and then I have seen many people rebel the notion of these particles' existence. Some have said that there is no difference between virtual and real particles, some have said that virtual particles are just math (the last one is more common). If you don't believe that, look through some threads here.

I know I can be arrogant sometimes, so, I'm sorry. In whatever defense you will allow me to have, I was somehow being attacked by 2-3 different people when I posted all of that, and I don't respond politely under pressure.
 
  • #35
benk99nenm312 said:
I know I can be arrogant sometimes, so, I'm sorry. In whatever defense you will allow me to have, I was somehow being attacked by 2-3 different people when I posted all of that, and I don't respond politely under pressure.
Keep working at what you want to learn, and realize that what you have to do to earn money right now is not going to be applicable. We are heading into warm weather, and people will want to take vacations. Because of that, people doing blue-collar work will need to be replaced at least temporarily. I suggest that you contact local grocery stores, and ask for summer employment. There is nothing glamorous about stocking shelves and freezers, but it is work that has to be done, reliably with as little supervision as possible. If you are good at it, you can probably work all summer long and earn a decent wage. If you can't do a good job, you are right back where you are now.

When I was in engineering school, I worked summers as a vacation replacement in a veneer mill. I started out doing some pretty menial stuff, and a year or so later, I was lead-operator (all summer long) on a pretty technical finishing line. No line of work is beneath me, and I hope that you'll take that attitude too. Honest labor that is fairly compensated is a good mark on anybody's resume.
 
  • #36
As a 16 year old with few to zero qualifications, I would estimate better employment opportunities being slim. Is there a particular reason you need a better job? I think you mentioned family support.

(About the sub-argument that developed, the OP does come off as rather arrogant, and you should understand that you enrage people because you claim to know everything about something they/we spend years studying in a formal manner.)
 
  • #37
Varnick said:
As a 16 year old with few to zero qualifications, I would estimate better employment opportunities being slim. Is there a particular reason you need a better job? I think you mentioned family support.

(About the sub-argument that developed, the OP does come off as rather arrogant, and you should understand that you enrage people because you claim to know everything about something they/we spend years studying in a formal manner.)

That's where I think the misconceptions started. I never claimed to know everything. I claim to know a little, but I never said I know it all.

As to why, yes, I need money for the family. Some started talking about me as if I thought I was above blue collar work. I work at a grocery store. Yet another misconception.

As I read my posts through again, I'm finding out that I came across as arrogant, but I never said half the things people claim I said in my posts. I don't know how they got the impression that I was a spoiled rich kid who thinks blue collar is below me. I do blue collar work for a living right now. I think some were just anxious to state their opinion, and they forgot to listen to mine.
 
  • #38
learn programming, that's the best bet you'll have at 16
 
  • #39
benk99nenm312 said:
That's where I think the misconceptions started. I never claimed to know everything. I claim to know a little, but I never said I know it all.

As to why, yes, I need money for the family. Some started talking about me as if I thought I was above blue collar work. I work at a grocery store. Yet another misconception.

As I read my posts through again, I'm finding out that I came across as arrogant, but I never said half the things people claim I said in my posts. I don't know how they got the impression that I was a spoiled rich kid who thinks blue collar is below me. I do blue collar work for a living right now. I think some were just anxious to state their opinion, and they forgot to listen to mine.

Your exact words were "..but I'm not a blue collar person"- that's how I got the impression you think blue collar work is below you, and that is a terrible mentality to have.

My suggestion- get some experience with electronics and PC repair, try to land a job doing something along those lines. It's a great experience for someone your age, and the skills will stay with you throughout your career/life.
 
  • #40
turbo-1 said:
I suggest that you contact local grocery stores, and ask for summer employment.

The OP is already working at a grocery store. He objects to it as "[he is] not a blue collar person."
 
  • #41
benk99nenm312 said:
Thanks for your, uh, how should I put this 'friendly advice'. You sound a lot like a professor I talked to once. Everyone tells me the same thing.

If everyone is telling you the same thing, have you considered the possibility that they are correct?
 
  • #42
Hello benk,we have employment agencies in the U.K. and I am assuming you have something similar in the U.S.I suggest that you find out what they have to offer and get on their books.As a youngster I had a wide variety of temporary jobs but I found the outside jobs to be the most satisfying.With your limited experience you may be ble to land jobs such as a builders labourer or a gardeners assistant.I feel fairly sure you will enjoy them.Personally I could not stand shop work,I worked in a wet fish shop but left after one day,actually I was sacked.
 
  • #43
Vanadium 50 said:
The OP is already working at a grocery store. He objects to it as "[he is] not a blue collar person."

The OP's original wording could've been clearer, but it was clear that they came here looking for job suggestions. If they were so arrogant, they wouldn't be asking for help.

chroot said:
Let's be honest... you're 16 and don't really know much math or physics at all. If you don't know the math behind QM and GR, then you don't know QM and GR... so your attempt at a unified theory is almost guaranteed to be wrong. If I were you I'd drop the bravado and begin concentrating on what you don't know, rather than what you do.

Power plants, science museums, etc. might be able to offer you an interesting job, but really, there aren't many jobs in science and math even for people with doctoral degrees in the subjects!

- Warren


This post seemed to start the ensuing arguments, in my opinion.
 
  • #44
benk99nenm312 said:
That's where I think the misconceptions started. I never claimed to know everything. I claim to know a little, but I never said I know it all.

As to why, yes, I need money for the family. Some started talking about me as if I thought I was above blue collar work. I work at a grocery store. Yet another misconception.

As I read my posts through again, I'm finding out that I came across as arrogant, but I never said half the things people claim I said in my posts. I don't know how they got the impression that I was a spoiled rich kid who thinks blue collar is below me. I do blue collar work for a living right now. I think some were just anxious to state their opinion, and they forgot to listen to mine.
Well, perhaps one was not explicit about knowing everything, but one made some bold, or perhaps brazen assertions, that seem to imply knowing more than one actually does, and that is to what many of those who are learned were reacting.

From the first two posts:
benk99nenm312 said:
I'm a 16 year old high school student, and I really need money (for family support). I've been wondering, is there any kind of job where I could work in the area of math or physics? (By the way, I assure you I'd be qualified.) I'm already pulling a job at Hy-Vee, but I'm not a blue collar person. Is there some sort of internship that I'm missing, or am I pretty much doomed?

This is sad, because here I have to tell you that I'm in Honors Pre-Calculus, and I have not yet had a physics class. I know that doesn't look good on a transcript, the problem is that I have taught myself Calculus and I know quite a lot of physics. I have a unification theory that has been looked at by a few professors from a couple colleges nearby, and they say it is quote, "plausible." I know QM and Relativity very well conceptually, but the math of both is still a bit beyond me.
A lot of knowledge, understanding and proficiency is necessary to develop a unification theory, assuming one is referring to the common usage meaning GUT or ToE. However there is a self-contradiction in "I know QM and Relativity very well conceptually, but the math of both is still a bit beyond me." and "I have a unification theory that has been looked at by a few professors from a couple colleges nearby, and they say it is quote, "plausible."

Rather than state that one is not a "blue collar person", it would have been better and more appropriate to say "I aspire to be more than a blue collar worker". When I was 16, I began taking Calculus and Physics during my senior year of high school. I was familiar with the concepts of QM and SR, but I was certainly aware that there was so much more to learn.

At 16, I worked at a gardening center loading 100 lb bags of dirt, stone and sand. The bags of manure were lighter. I heaved 50 - 70 lb bags of fertilizer and herbicides. I carried sod, potted plants, and trees and loaded peoples cars. I loved it! I started that during the summer of my junior year and worked on weekends and some evenings during the school year.

The second job I had during high school was at a grocery store - first sacking groceries, then stocking the dairy case. Living at home (parents'), I saved the money to pay for school.

During my first years at university, I took a summer job on campus as a plumber's helper, and that lead to a part time job during the school year. I did mechanical maintenance and janitorial work as well. And in the second year, I worked in the food service department, which paid my room and board for the year. I was studying physics at the time. I learned a lot of practical things, including plumbing and electrical work, which I still use today as a home owner.

After a few years of studying physics, I switched majors (to Nuc Eng) and university. At that time, I took a job as a iron worker building metal buildings and large industrial structures. That was a blast too! I enjoyed the heavy labor and I could earn several $thousand over a summer which payed for my school year and living expenses.

When I started grad school, I received teaching and research assistantships. During my MS program, I also worked full-time (40 hrs/wk) for the local city water department as a system operator, which allowed me time (evenings or graveyard) to do homework and grade papers.

At 16, one has start at the bottom. It's like weightlifting, one starts with 10 or 15 pounds in each hand, and slowly works up to 50, 60, . . . lbs per hand. A novice does not go and lift 200 lbs overhead the first time.
 
  • #45
What I meant by "I'm not a blue collar person," is that I'm not good at it.:smile:
I don't think it's below me, it's just that I would rather aspire to higher ranking jobs.

I see your point about the contradictions I've made with the unification theory and knowledge of physics. I know it seems rediculous. I would rather avoid discussion on that. I don't want to spend time arguing over something I can't even give you the details of.

Thanks for the advice on what jobs I should look for. As an attempt to find something closer to my hobbies, does anyone know of how you could sell music? I compose piano in my spare time.
 
  • #46
benk99nenm312 said:
What I meant by "I'm not a blue collar person," is that I'm not good at it.:smile:
I don't think it's below me, it's just that I would rather aspire to higher ranking jobs.

I see your point about the contradictions I've made with the unification theory and knowledge of physics. I know it seems rediculous. I would rather avoid discussion on that. I don't want to spend time arguing over something I can't even give you the details of.

Thanks for the advice on what jobs I should look for. As an attempt to find something closer to my hobbies, does anyone know of how you could sell music? I compose piano in my spare time.

You could record it, and then sell the CDs either locally, or on the internet (eBay, Amazon, etc.). I don't know how sucessful that will be though.
 
  • #47
benk99nenm312 said:
What I meant by "I'm not a blue collar person," is that I'm not good at it.:smile:
I don't think it's below me, it's just that I would rather aspire to higher ranking jobs.

I see your point about the contradictions I've made with the unification theory and knowledge of physics. I know it seems rediculous. I would rather avoid discussion on that. I don't want to spend time arguing over something I can't even give you the details of.

Thanks for the advice on what jobs I should look for. As an attempt to find something closer to my hobbies, does anyone know of how you could sell music? I compose piano in my spare time.
For music, one would have to audition, or make a tape/CD. I knew an amateur piano player who made his own demo tapes. He gave me couple, which were quite good. Some churches pay for people to play piano or organ, or hotels/bars allow piano players to play for tips.

I wasn't good at sacking groceries, but with advice from others, I improved. Skills must be learned - whether its blue collar work or physics or math. I find manual labor rather relaxing and meditative or contemplative, and the exercise is good for the mind.
 
  • #48
Wellesley said:
You could record it, and then sell the CDs either locally, or on the internet (eBay, Amazon, etc.). I don't know how sucessful that will be though.

Do you know if it has to be published through some-one, or some business? That would be the toughest part, I think.
 
  • #49
benk99nenm312 said:
Do you know if it has to be published through some-one, or some business? That would be the toughest part, I think.

Amazon requires a publisher/middle man. As far as I can tell, eBay does not. I'm sure there are other sites out there that are better than these two, you just have to look.
 
  • #50
benk99nenm312 said:
I'm a 16 year old high school student, and I really need money (for family support). I've been wondering, is there any kind of job where I could work in the area of math or physics? (By the way, I assure you I'd be qualified.) I'm already pulling a job at Hy-Vee, but I'm not a blue collar person. Is there some sort of internship that I'm missing, or am I pretty much doomed?

Thanks in advance.

Hey Kid,
I'd encourage you to be optimistic. I had a high school student working for me for several months - and the only reason why he's not getting more of my money is because he had to prepare for exams. I'd encourage you to check:

odesk.com (set a really LOW hourly rate - like say $4 - initially; then, once you get a track record, you can charge more)

rentacoder.com

getafreelancer.com

If you can write well, try the buy/sell/trade section at wickedfire.com. You'll have to give free samples of your work but after a while - if you are good - you can build up a lucrative client base. As an example, I had a 19 year old Romanian kid doing work for me for a while. His impetus for working was that he needed to earn money to pay for his mother's operation in Vienna. Now the guy's making close to 5 figures per month. When I first hired him, he was writing for about $.02/word. As you can imagine, $10,000+ for a Romanian teenager without a college degree can create a standard of living equal to $30-$50,000/month in the USA (depending of course on the fact that you are not in DC, LA, Boston, San Fran, etc).

If you have an affinity for the quantitative, try offering some kind of excel-based service. Also, don't buy all this talk about "boo hoo, there's a recession, nobody is spending money, blah blah blah". That's utter balderdash. Now's the best time in the past 70+ years to make money. So much so it causes one to sweat because you realize in a short time everyone else will awaken to the reality and all that easy cash will be gone...

You can make money for yourself online if money is what you require. However, you will need to learn how to package your skills/core competencies/talents, in such a way that it can be effectively monetized; this means learning and speaking the language of people who have the money and are willing to spend it. So you can either become an "independent wage earner" and sell your services on the open market vs. an employer (i.e. check those sites above); or you can set upon the task of owning some of the factors of production, i.e. your own business. Both choices carry a distinct level of uncertainty/risk and reward/$$$. I'm not doing anymore hiring at the moment - else I'd tell you to send me your CV.

Good Luck
 

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