Probability of finding electrons in nucleus (s orbitals)

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the probability of finding an electron in an s orbital within the nucleus, highlighting that this probability is highest due to the spherical symmetry of the potential and the nature of the wave function, which has an antinode at the nucleus. The concept of angular momentum being zero for s orbitals is also noted as a contributing factor. It is clarified that the electron does not need energy to be partially located in the nucleus and does not "pass" through it in a classical sense. The electron's wave function indicates that it exists everywhere simultaneously, with only a small portion of it being present in the nucleus. Experimental detection of an electron at the nucleus is theoretically possible, although practical realization poses challenges. The discussion also touches on the distinction between probability density and radial probability distribution, emphasizing that the highest probability of finding the electron is at the nucleus but does not imply the electron is fully contained there. For further study, references to additional resources and articles on quantum mechanics and atomic structure are suggested.
Enigman
Messages
643
Reaction score
312
Why is the probability of finding an electron of s orbital in the nucleus highest? Is Quantum Tunneling involved? If so, won't the electron need a large amount of energy to pass through the nucleus?
 
Chemistry news on Phys.org
Why is the probability of finding an electron of s orbital in the nucleus highest?
One type of wave function has the highest probability, and that type is called "s" for historical reasons. It has nothing to do with tunneling.
Neither the electron nor the nucleus are billard balls, they don't "collide" as classical objects would do. The electron does not need any energy to be (partially) in the nucleus, and it does not "pass" the nucleus.
 
mfb said:
One type of wave function has the highest probability, and that type is called "s" for historical reasons. It has nothing to do with tunneling.
Neither the electron nor the nucleus are billiard balls, they don't "collide" as classical objects would do. The electron does not need any energy to be (partially) in the nucleus, and it does not "pass" the nucleus.
That doesn't exactly answer my questions...my questions in are:
-Why is the amplitude of wave function reach an antinode at the nucleus, making the probability density highest at the nucleus?
-Does it have anything to do with angular momentum being zero?
-The probability density graphs of s orbitals show a highest density at the center of nucleus- so wouldn't an electron have to be fully in the nucleus? (-Thats probably why I got the weird idea of tunneling; mixed it up with penetration. :redface:) Or is it just a schrodinger's cat scenario?
-Can an electron be 'detected' experimentally at the nucleus? (ie.Collapsing the wave form and fixing position at nucleus)
-Also a reference book suggestion would be great- the coursebook (Atkins- elements of phys. chem.) is rather vague about most of the part, I'm self studying by Shankar's book on Q.M. but it doesn't deal with atomic structure (as far as I've read).
Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:
-Why is the amplitude of wave function reach an antinode at the nucleus, making the probability density highest at the nucleus?
By symmetry (spherical symmetry of the potential), it has to reach a maximum or a minimum. All wave functions with a maximum there are called "s".
-Does it have anything to do with angular momentum being zero?
Yes, it is equivalent to that.
-The probability density graphs of s orbitals show a highest density at the center of nucleus- so wouldn't an electron have to be fully in the nucleus? (-Thats probably why I got the weird idea of tunneling; mixed it up with penetration. :redface:) Or is it just a schrodinger's cat scenario?
The electron "is" everywhere in its wave function "at the same time" - only a (very small) part of the wave function is in the nucleus.
-Can an electron be 'detected' experimentally at the nucleus? (ie.Collapsing the wave form and fixing position at nucleus)
In principle, this is possible. I don't know how an experimental realization of that would look like.

Books: no idea.
 
If you look at this site you can find some answers to your questions.
http://www.chemistry.mcmaster.ca/esam/Chapter_3/section_2.html

The electron in an atom is in a quantum state designated by n, l, m(l) and m(s).
For all s orbitals we have l=0, and m(l) =0, so subsequentially the angular momentum and magnetic moment are zero.

Orbital wave function can be broken up into a spherical polar coordinate part and a radial part.
What you are referring to is the probability of finding the electron at a certain radial distance from the nucleus.
There is another probability called the radial probability distribution, which is the radial probability of the wave function squared multiplied by the volume of a spherical shell of thickness dr at a distance r from the nucleuos.
The maximum probability is given as where the electron is most likely to be found. ( Can be considered the size of the orbital )


For determining the whereabouts of the electron, the site states:
Two interpretations can again be given to the P1 curve. An experiment designed to detect the position of the electron with an uncertainty much less than the diameter of the atom itself (using light of short wavelength) will, if repeated a large number of times, result in Fig. 3-4 for P1. That is, the electron will be detected close to the nucleus most frequently and the probability of observing it at some distance from the nucleus will decrease rapidly with increasing r. The atom will be ionized in making each of these observations because the energy of the photons with a wavelength much less than 10-8 cm will be greater than K, the amount of energy required to ionize the hydrogen atom. If light with a wavelength comparable to the diameter of the atom is employed in the experiment, then the electron will not be excited but our knowledge of its position will be correspondingly less precise. In these experiments, in which the electron's energy is not changed, the electron will appear to be "smeared out" and we may interpret P1 as giving the fraction of the total electronic charge to be found in every small volume element of space. (Recall that the addition of the value of Pn for every small volume element over all space adds up to unity, i.e., one electron and one electronic charge.)

I imagine if the wave function collapses in the nucleus, woulld not that mean it has been captured by a proton.

How the wave function for an electron is determined I cannot say but it has to do with Schroedinger, de Broglie, particle in a box, and all that stuff.
I kinda remember this stuff from old chemistry days and it is now somewhat vague.
 
I want to test a humidity sensor with one or more saturated salt solutions. The table salt that I have on hand contains one of two anticaking agents, calcium silicate or sodium aluminosilicate. Will the presence of either of these additives (or iodine for that matter) significantly affect the equilibrium humidity? I searched and all the how-to-do-it guides did not address this question. One research paper I found reported that at 1.5% w/w calcium silicate increased the deliquescent point by...
I was introduced to the Octet Rule recently and make me wonder, why does 8 valence electrons or a full p orbital always make an element inert? What is so special with a full p orbital? Like take Calcium for an example, its outer orbital is filled but its only the s orbital thats filled so its still reactive not so much as the Alkaline metals but still pretty reactive. Can someone explain it to me? Thanks!!
I'm trying to find a cheap DIY method to etch holes of various shapes through 0.3mm Aluminium sheet using 5-10% Sodium Hydroxide. The idea is to apply a resist to the Aluminium then selectively ablate it off using a diode laser cutter and then dissolve away the Aluminium using Sodium Hydroxide. By cheap I mean resists costing say £20 in small quantities. The Internet has suggested various resists to try including... Enamel paint (only survived seconds in the NaOH!) Acrylic paint (only...
Back
Top