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The impossible lost city Mega .

by Andre
Tags: city, impossible, lost, mega
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matthyaouw
#19
May11-07, 06:44 AM
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For the surface area to change, surely there would be some notable crustal extension and subsequent shortening. Where do you propose this occurs?

edit: also, at what rate do these fluctuations occur? We have techniques good enough to measure the movement of the tectonic plates, so why haven't they picked this up?
Andre
#20
May11-07, 06:49 AM
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Haven't you ever wondered what the cause was of all those parallel East west ridges in the Atlantic perpendicular to the Mid Atlantic ridge? How about the deep N/S rifts in the pacific
matthyaouw
#21
May11-07, 06:56 AM
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You mean the strike-slip faults? As far as I'm aware those don't represent any extension or compression- the volume and thickness of the crust is not altered by them.
matthyaouw
#22
May11-07, 07:12 AM
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sea level is not a simple surface. Since the sea surface conforms to the earth's gravitational field, [mean sea level] also has slight hills and valleys that are similar to the land surface but much smoother.
http://www.esri.com/news/arcuser/0703/geoid1of3.html

Wouldn't sea level therefore correct itself to the changing shape of the earth if it was pulsating like you say? Or would this amplify the effect? I really am having a hard time getting my head round this one...
Andre
#23
May11-07, 07:24 AM
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Think of the oceans as an independant fluid planet, shaping itself purely by it's own gravity and centrifugal forces. Now think of the Earth without water, basically having the same forces that makes up it's shape. But there are more forces acting on Earth, caused by the dynamics of the Earth Core and Mantle, which are only acting on the solid, not on the fluid. This would cause the Earth to make changes in it's shape, whereas the fluid part does not (in principle). of course there are complications like minute changes in gravity that make the oceans react to.

But remember it is all speculation of course. Just see if the idea fits to the empiric evidence.
matthyaouw
#24
May11-07, 07:36 AM
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I don't know if you missed my question above: at what rate and magnitude do these fluctuations occur? We have techniques good enough to measure the movement of the tectonic plates, so have they picked this movement up?
Andre
#25
May11-07, 11:34 AM
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It's supposed to explain the sudden transition to the unexplained non-Milankovitch 100,000 years isotope cycles in the ice cores and at the oceans floors, that started to occur about a million years ago.
baywax
#26
May11-07, 11:50 AM
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Quote Quote by Andre View Post
Problem is that you'd have to come up with a scenario that did not destroy it. So no caldera stuff or slides I'm afraid.

How about a pulsating equator?
How about Hydro Isostacy? There'd have to be fractures that disallowed the landmass to rise after the isostacy so perhaps a combination, one-two sink and shake?

Did I miss a link to underwater photos of this site?
matthyaouw
#27
May11-07, 01:04 PM
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Andre, you can find several years worth of data for a whole network of incredibly accurate GPSs, including height data here: http://sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov/mbh/series.html

If your theory has something to it, there should be a reasonably good correlation between latitude and height variation over the course of the last few years. Why not put it to the test?
Mk
#28
May11-07, 02:04 PM
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Quote Quote by matthyaouw View Post
I think you two may have missed the point of that statement slightly...
Haha, I know!

And for the ones that didn't get "the point of that statement" it had to do with sarcasm and poking fun at some people's ways of thinking
Andre
#29
May11-07, 02:05 PM
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I don't have the impression that the movement is regular as in a harmonic cyclic, rather than being chaotic and more "catastrophic". Something like 5000-10.000 years of increased eccentricity of the geoide to get into the interglacials and then a much slower 20-30,000 retreat to a rounder situation, the glacial stadia and then silence again for ~50-60,000 years before a next cycle. This would reflect the pace of the typical cycles:

http://www.sierraclub.ca/national/pr...k-ice-core.jpg

Again, we are not looking at "temperature" here but isotope anomalies, which may have a completely different explanation in the pulsating Earth.

The last action took place between 19,000 yr and 9000 years. I have filled many threads here, mostly monologues, illustrating the weird things that happened. You will also find high tectonic activities and volcanims in that periods.

You might expect currently small pertubations around a stable situation.

Problem with testing this kind of ideas is the all-swans-are-white hypothesis, illustrated here.

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=169202

So, the first step is falsifying the current hypothesis and I have a bunch of black swans, debunking the current beliefs about the Pleistocene ice age. You can't read my threads and not stumble upom links substantiating that. This cuban city is a beautiful white swan. So is Beijing under sea. So is the herd of 10 fossil Narwhals found in situ on October revolution islands in the Arctic sea on an elevation of 120 meters. Although the bones are beyond carbon dating, those are not mineralized yet, which would certainly limit the age to not more than 100,000 - 150,000 years but likely less.

Here is one of the vertebras:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/bijkerk/vertebra.JPG

Indeed we need a good prediction. I predict that Earth will gradually get rounder in the next 30,000 years. Hmm, testability?

So we keep collecting white swans, I have a dozen or so more, until we find that black one, then we move on to the next hypothesis.
baywax
#30
May11-07, 02:24 PM
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Quote Quote by Andre View Post
I don't have the impression that the movement is regular as in a harmonic cyclic, rather than being chaotic and more "catastrophic". Something like 5000-10.000 years of increased eccentricity of the geoide to get into the interglacials and then a much slower 20-30,000 retreat to a rounder situation, the glacial stadia and then silence again for ~50-60,000 years before a next cycle. This would reflect the pace of the typical cycles:

http://www.sierraclub.ca/national/pr...k-ice-core.jpg

Again, we are not looking at "temperature" here but isotope anomalies, which may have a completely different explanation in the pulsating Earth.

The last action took place between 19,000 yr and 9000 years. I have filled many threads here, mostly monologues, illustrating the weird things that happened. You will also find high tectonic activities and volcanims in that periods.

You might expect currently small pertubations around a stable situation.

Problem with testing this kind of ideas is the all-swans-are-white hypothesis, illustrated here.

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=169202

So, the first step is falsifying the current hypothesis and I have a bunch of black swans, debunking the current beliefs about the Pleistocene ice age. You can't read my threads and not stumble upom links substantiating that. This cuban city is a beautiful white swan. So is Beijing under sea. So is the herd of 10 fossil Narwhals found in situ on October revolution islands in the Arctic sea on an elevation of 120 meters. Although the bones are beyond carbon dating, those are not mineralized yet, which would certainly limit the age to not more than 100,000 - 150,000 years but likely less.

Here is one of the vertebras:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/bijkerk/vertebra.JPG

Indeed we need a good prediction. I predict that Earth will gradually get rounder in the next 30,000 years. Hmm, testability?

So we keep collecting white swans, I have a dozen or so more, until we find that black one, then we move on to the next hypothesis.
There are so many examples of fossils of seabottom dwelling creatures being found at such heights as 14,000 feet in the Rockies.

this unrelated article has a passage about fossils at that altitude.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1031062625.htm

If this sort of dramatic change can happen with the crust (for many different reasons) then a city can sink to 2100 feet no problemo.

Please post a link to any photos of this MEGA site.
matthyaouw
#32
May11-07, 02:37 PM
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I'll admit I'm getting quite caught up in this and want to discuss it more, but I have a sizeable essay to write for Thursday and exams the week after so I'm going to wait until later before I start properly reading up on this.
billiards
#33
May11-07, 02:44 PM
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Quote Quote by Andre View Post
Problem is that you'd have to come up with a scenario that did not destroy it. So no caldera stuff or slides I'm afraid.

How about a pulsating equator?
Looking at the data it is not at all clear that the structures are manmade. How can you say that it has not been destroyed when it is not even clear if it ever existed? Assuming that it really is a lost city, how can you rule out some kind of catatrophic event that might have destroyed the finer details of the city but left the general features in tact?
Andre
#34
May11-07, 03:00 PM
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The sonars shows complex regular temple like structures of several hunderd meters along straight "roads" Some firm earthquakes may indeed not have destroyed the general outline. But landslides is a different game of course, you would not end up with rectangular constructions.

This all may be clear if you check on the details in the older threads. I seem to remember that we have discussed the credibility at length.
baywax
#35
May11-07, 03:31 PM
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Quote Quote by Andre View Post
The sonars shows complex regular temple like structures of several hunderd meters along straight "roads" Some firm earthquakes may indeed not have destroyed the general outline. But landslides is a different game of course, you would not end up with rectangular constructions.

This all may be clear if you check on the details in the older threads. I seem to remember that we have discussed the credibility at length.
Thanks Andre...

the UW landslides seem rampant in the area. The faults are suspiciously either side and south of the MEGA site. I see no reason to doubt that geological activity brought this down to its current (no pun ) level. Its a wonder its not buried as well.

I've seen the Bimini road in detail and that's definitely hand placed and hand crafted megalithic work. The photos look the same. Erosion from the ocean has a disintegrating and rounding effect on the stone. However, if you look at the Japanese ruins off S Okiniwa, the right angles are still well kept in this area. Perhaps less current to round them out. Or, perhaps the MEGA site is much older than the Japanese one.

What is the status of dating hand hewn rock faces?! There was talk of a method where the rock that had been exposed by hand in the last 20,000 years was datable when compared to the age of the parent stone?
baywax
#36
May21-07, 10:53 PM
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Here are some sound bites from a Reuters report on the
"Mystery of Cabo San Antonio, a possible underwater city off Cuba"


Quote Quote by Reuters
"'Its a new frontier', enthused Soviet-born Canadian ocean engineer Pauline Zelitsky, from British Columbia-based Advanced Digital Communications, poring over video images of hitherto unseen seafloor taken by underwater robots.

'We are the first people ever to see the bottom of Cuban waters over 50 metres... its so exciting. We are discovering the influence of currents on global climate, volcanoes, the history of formation of the Caribbean islands, numerous historic wrecks and even possibly a sunken city built in the pre-classic period and populated by an advanced civilization similar to the early Teotihuacan culture of Yucatan' she said.

Advanced Digitial Communications has been exploring a string of underwater volcanos about 5000 feet deep off Cubas western tip, where millions of years ago a strip of land once joined the island (of Cuba) to Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula.

Most intriguingly, researchers using sonar equipment have discovered, at a depth of about 2200 feet, a huge land plateau with clear images of what appears to be urban development partly covered by sand. From above, the shapes resemble pyramids, roads and buildings.

'Its stunning. What we see in our high resolution sonar images are limitless, rolling, white sand plains and, in the middle of this beautiful white sand, there are clear man made large size architectural designs. It looks like when you fly over an urban development in a plane and you see highways, tunnels and buildings.' Zelitsky said.

'We don't know what it is and we don't have the videotaped evidence of this yet, but we do not believe that nature is capable of producing planned symmetrical architecture, unless it is a miracle.' she added in an interveiw in her office at Tarara along the coast east of Havana."


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