8.9 earthquake in Japan: tsunami warnings


by Lacy33
Tags: japan earthquake, japan nuclear, japan tsunami, meltdown, nuclear
Evo
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Mar11-11, 10:47 AM
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Reports say 88,000 people are missing, with 200-300 bodies already found.
Astronuc
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Mar11-11, 10:50 AM
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Quote Quote by nismaratwork View Post
I'm sorry, did you just say, in a very academic and clear way I might add... that they'd be worried about a coolant rupture and subsequent leak? Ouch...

I can see why plan for the worst, hope for the best makes sense in plant engineering.
No, I only indicated what the concern would be if the core and primary system heated to the point that the primary system would be over-pressurized. Outside of the primary system, which includes the pressure vessels that contains the core, is the containment building. The containment building is designed to contain the contents of the primary system, and radioactive material, in the even the primary system leaks. However, we prefer not to allow the primary system to be compromised.

Now it seems the IAEA is concerned that one of the reactor vessels may be compromised, but that makes no sense given the reports that there is no radiation leak. I'd assume that kind of thing would be rather obvious from aerial/satellite surveillance?
I have not yet heard any report on the integrity of the pressure vessels of priamry system of any of the units. I would not be obvious from satellite or air.

I am waiting for reliable information.

This map shows the locations of Japanese NPPs.
http://www.insc.anl.gov/pwrmaps/map/japan.php

The Fukushima plants 1 and 2 were the closest, but Tokai and Onagwa are also affected. They should have all units shut down.

Fukushima Daiichi (Plant 1) has 6 units, and Fukushima Daini (Plant 2) has 4 units. Tokai has 2 units and Onagawa has 3 units.
Astronuc
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Mar11-11, 10:52 AM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
Reports say 88,000 people are missing, with 200-300 bodies already found.
Just around the Sendai city area:
Police said 200 to 300 bodies were found in the northeastern coastal city of Sendai, the city in Miyagi prefecture, or state, closest to the epicenter. Another 137 were confirmed killed, with 531 people missing. Police also said 627 people were injured.

. . . .
Many coastal villages and towns were inundated by flooding. Thousands might have drowned, and
A large section of Kesennuma, a town of 70,000 people in Miyagi, burned furiously into the night with no apparent hope of being extinguished, public broadcaster NHK said.
Clearly, it is very bad and the death toll could be quite high.
Evo
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Mar11-11, 10:55 AM
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An 8.9 magnitude earthquake off the coast of Northeast Japan spawned a ferocious tsunami that's caused massive destruction; flattening whole cities, starting raging fires, and killing hundreds. Nearly 88,000 people are reported missing, according to the official Kyodo news agency.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenv...ke-and-tsunami

I don't know how they are making such a calculation.

http://onespot.wsj.com/small-busines...ssing-in-japan

According to the Kyodo News Agency, via BBC, the official missing persons tally is around 88,000.
Let's hope it's nowhere that high.
Astronuc
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Mar11-11, 11:01 AM
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That's probably an estimate based on the population of towns and villages along the affected coastline.

Tohoku Region (most affected) - http://gojapan.about.com/cs/japanmap...fecturemap.htm
2. Aomori
4. Iwate
6. Miyagi
7. Fukushima
Lancelot59
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Mar11-11, 11:07 AM
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I wonder if the wave will reach north america.
Astronuc
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Mar11-11, 11:21 AM
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Quote Quote by Lancelot59 View Post
I wonder if the wave will reach north america.
Waves have already passed Hawaii, and they will hit coasts of Alaska, British Columbia, Washington, Oregon, California, and points south. Some of the energy will dissipate across the ocean.

http://ptwc.weather.gov/

We're still waiting for reliable reports on the situation at Fukushima Daiichi, Units 1 & 2.

Meanwhile - http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS...n_1103111.html

Later, Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) reported that emergency diesel generators started as expected at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, but then stopped after one hour, leaving units 1, 2 and 3 with no power for important cooling functions. This led the company to notify the government of an 'emergency' situation, which allows local authorities to take additional precautionary measures. An evacuation has been ordered of over 1000 people living within three kilometres, while engineers worked to restore power.

Almost nine hours later, an announcement from the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry said that three of four mobile power supplies had arrived at Fukushima Daiichi and cables were being set up to supply emergency power. Other power modules were in transit by air.

. . . .
It sounds like they are dealing appropriately with the situation, but one can be sure that there will an investigation as why the EDGs stopped after one hour. The site must have an independent on-site power supply in case of loss of off-site power.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/...amiupdate.html
lisab
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Mar11-11, 11:22 AM
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Quote Quote by Lancelot59 View Post
I wonder if the wave will reach north america.
Yes, there are reports coming in now. Nothing like what hit Japan, though.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/0...losed-due.html
elabed haidar
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Mar11-11, 11:26 AM
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GOd be with he japanese people
nismaratwork
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Mar11-11, 11:33 AM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
No, I only indicated what the concern would be if the core and primary system heated to the point that the primary system would be over-pressurized. Outside of the primary system, which includes the pressure vessels that contains the core, is the containment building. The containment building is designed to contain the contents of the primary system, and radioactive material, in the even the primary system leaks. However, we prefer not to allow the primary system to be compromised.

I have not yet heard any report on the integrity of the pressure vessels of priamry system of any of the units. I would not be obvious from satellite or air.

I am waiting for reliable information.

This map shows the locations of Japanese NPPs.
http://www.insc.anl.gov/pwrmaps/map/japan.php

The Fukushima plants 1 and 2 were the closest, but Tokai and Onagwa are also affected. They should have all units shut down.

Fukushima Daiichi (Plant 1) has 6 units, and Fukushima Daini (Plant 2) has 4 units. Tokai has 2 units and Onagawa has 3 units.
By all accounts, the fires and damage was largely to the control building, and the reactor vessels are still secure. Given how earthquake-conscious the Japanese are, I'd bet on integrity holding. If you do get reliable info beyond this, would you please post it here if you can?

Thanks for the added information btw.

@Evo: This is horrific... 8.9... that's so much energy being released in such a short time. I saw the images of those wave carrying debris on fire, over farmland... I actually feel a bit choked up.

On one bright side for me at least, my friend was on a trip to Germany, but he no longer has a home.

I'm not the praying type, but... my hopes are certainly for the best possible outcome.
Astronuc
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Mar11-11, 11:39 AM
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A reasonably good article on the tsunami risk.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=10711871

There is even a Tsunami threat map.
nismaratwork
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Mar11-11, 11:42 AM
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My knowledge of seismology is about 0.00000000000000000...00..01

Is this an ongoing and connected phenomenon of multiple quakes including NZ, or is this coincidence? Is this in some way connected or likely to initiate a major event elsewhere on the RoF, such as Cali?
DevilsAvocado
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Mar11-11, 11:58 AM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
The site must have an independent on-site power supply in case of loss of off-site power.
I donít know if this is a "rumor", but I heard on BBC that they lost normal power to cool the hot (but shoot down) core, and then tried to start the diesel reserve and that failed too, and now they are running the cooling system on batteries(?)... which will run out sooner or later...?
DevilsAvocado
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Mar11-11, 12:00 PM
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Quote Quote by nismaratwork View Post
This is horrific... 8.9... that's so much energy being released in such a short time.
This is a "monster". I heard that a "box" of the tectonics sized 500 km x 100 km basically JUMPED 10 meters in a very short time!!

Iím glad you found your friend... phew...
nismaratwork
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Mar11-11, 12:01 PM
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Quote Quote by DevilsAvocado View Post
This is a "monster". I heard that a "box" of the tectonics sized 500 km x 100 km basically JUMPED 10 meters in a very short time!!

Iím glad you found your friend... phew...
Sheesh... that's amazing.

And thanks buddy.
Astronuc
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Mar11-11, 12:08 PM
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Quote Quote by DevilsAvocado View Post
I don’t know if this is a "rumor", but I heard on BBC that they lost normal power to cool the hot (but shoot down) core, and then tried to start the diesel reserve and that failed too, and now they are running the cooling system on batteries(?)... which will run out sooner or later...?
Here are the official statements from TEPCO. Any other statement from the media should be considered unsubstantiated.

Press Release (Mar 11,2011)
Occurrence of a Specific Incident Stipulated in Article 15, Clause 1 of the Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness(Fukushima Daiichi)

Today at approximately 2:46PM, turbines and reactors of Tokyo Electric
Power Company's Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Unit 1 (Boiling
Water Reactor, rated output 460 Megawatts) and Units 2 and 3 (Boiling
Water Reactor, Rated Output 784 Megawatts) that had been operating at
rated power automatically shutdown due to the Miyagiken-oki Earthquake.

For the above 3 units, off-site power was lost due to malfunction of one
out of two off-site power systems, leading to automatic startup of
emergency diesel generators.

Subsequently, at 3:41PM, emergency diesel generators shutdown due to
malfunction resulting in the complete loss of alternating current for all
three units.

. . . .
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp...1031103-e.html

followed by Press Release (Mar 11,2011)
Occurrence of a Specific Incident Stipulated in Article 10, Clause 1 of the Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness(Fukushima Daini)

Today at 2:46PM, turbines and reactors of Tokyo Electric Power Company's
Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Station Units 1 to 4 (Boiling Water Reactor,
rated output 1,100 Megawatts) that had been operating at rated power
automatically shutdown due to the Miyagiken-oki Earthquake.

Currently, reactor water level for Units 1 to 4 is maintained by injecting
water into the reactors by the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System.
The reactors are maintained at a subcritical condition.

For Unit 1, the emergency core cooling system automatically started up
due to increase in the reactor containment pressure assumed to be caused
by leakage of reactor coolant in the reactor containment.

Hence, at 5:35PM, it was decided that a specific incident stipulated in
Article 10, Clause 1 of the Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear
Emergency Preparedness *1 has occurred.

At 5:50PM, pursuant to the Act, relevant governmental institutions were
notified of the incident.

Future Actions: TEPCO is taking measures to reduce the pressure of the reactor containment.

Impact to safety and external environment:
Water level to cool the irradiated nuclear fuel in the reactor core is
maintained at this moment.
Indication of the monitoring posts installed in the periphery of the power
station is no different from usual and thus no radiation impact to the
external environment is confirmed at this moment.
We will continue to monitor in detail the possibility of discharge of
radioactive material from exhaust stacks and coolant water discharge canal.

. . . .
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp...1031104-e.html

Loss of off-site power would be expected for such an event. Failure of EDGs or ECCS is not expected.

Additional information - http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html

More on the tsunami - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80CH_XkpSCE
Miyaki prefecture coast was hit especially hard.

Other videos
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenv...ke-and-tsunami

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YPOK_3r8Dc

What gets me is the people that keep driving toward the flood waters. Clearly some are not paying attention to the unfolding disaster.
DevilsAvocado
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Mar11-11, 12:25 PM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
Here are the official statements from TEPCO. Any other statement from the media should be considered unsubstantiated.
Thanks Astronuc!

I guessed BBC was "out on thin ice"...
nismaratwork
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Mar11-11, 12:28 PM
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It's hard to avoid a measure of hysteria in the media when splitting atoms comes into play... unforunately. We're lucky to have a knowledgeable voice of reason and patience.

Thanks Astronuc.


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