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Electromagnetic fields and empty space

by nouveau_riche
Tags: electromagnetic, fields, space
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Drakkith
#19
Jul26-11, 04:50 PM
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Quote Quote by MikeyW View Post
Hold on- at sufficiently high temperatures there is the matter-antimatter-radiation equilibrium, and when the temperature drops, matter and antimatter combine to form radiation and whatever is left. It's at this point that you look and see that there are many more photons than protons/electrons, and conclude "the early universe was radiation dominant"...

Radiation dominant doesn't mean there wasn't matter, simply that the matter/antimatter difference was so slight that when they combined, most of the matter was converted to radiation, leaving a small amount of matter, and a relatively large amount of radiation (dominant == considerably higher energy density).

I don't believe radiation dominant can be used for an argument that the electromagnetic field can exist without there ever previously being any charge present. That radiation came from charge/anticharge interactions in the first place.
I've always wondered what exactly existed at that time. From my reading on the subject I had assumed it was only/primarily radiation. However I can see if there were constantly matter and antimatter being created an annihilated.
nouveau_riche
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Jul27-11, 02:59 AM
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Quote Quote by Dotini View Post
Maybe photons would exist, but would you know it unless it had a material surface to light up?

I see electrons, protons and other subatomic particles coming together from the regime of ionizing radiation to form atoms and molecules.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
Quote Quote by chrisbaird View Post
"Matter" in physics is any object or particle that has mass. Photons have no mass and are not considered matter. If you want to use the word "matter" to describe anything that exists or can exist, massive and massless, then the word becomes useless.
how does then the essence of electric and magnetic field (in photon) could be there without any charge actually being there?
what is there to ionize ,if only photons were the only one existing at that time?
or in your case how can ionization give charge?
DaleSpam
#21
Jul27-11, 06:02 AM
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Quote Quote by MikeyW View Post
Radiation dominant doesn't mean there wasn't matter
I know that. To my understanding the OP's question is obviously not a question about this universe since there ARE charges in this universe. The question is if a hypothetical universe using the same laws of physics as ours could be theoretically possible.

The answer to that seems to be "yes", IMO. The laws of physics don't forbid it (vacuum solutions to Maxwell's equations) and this universe was reasonably close to such a condition at one time (radiation dominated).
Dotini
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Jul27-11, 06:56 AM
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Quote Quote by nouveau_riche View Post
how does then the essence of electric and magnetic field (in photon) could be there without any charge actually being there?
what is there to ionize ,if only photons were the only one existing at that time?
or in your case how can ionization give charge?
I'm certainly no expert. But, in our universe, I think charge (dipolarity) must have preceded photons and matter (elementary atoms), and that electric and magnetic fields also must have existed prior to photons and matter. First come the rules, then the pieces of the game. I'm trying to get the minimum number of rules and pieces on the board to self-assemble into what we see today.

I have a question for the experts about spin - is it a property of polarity, or is it considered energy, or both?

Respectfully,
Steve
nouveau_riche
#23
Jul27-11, 10:23 AM
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Quote Quote by Dotini View Post
I'm certainly no expert. But, in our universe, I think charge (dipolarity) must have preceded photons and matter (elementary atoms), and that electric and magnetic fields also must have existed prior to photons and matter. First come the rules, then the pieces of the game. I'm trying to get the minimum number of rules and pieces on the board to self-assemble into what we see today.

I have a question for the experts about spin - is it a property of polarity, or is it considered energy, or both?

Respectfully,
Steve
if charge came earlier,so will be the mass unless the temperature is so high at that time to avoid sufficient interactions
and what do you mean by the property of polarity?,please elaborate
Dotini
#24
Jul27-11, 10:39 AM
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Quote Quote by nouveau_riche View Post
what do you mean by the property of polarity?,please elaborate
General examples of polarity:
- positive/negative
- left/right
- male/female
- light/dark
- yin/yang

Respectfully,
Steve
nouveau_riche
#25
Jul27-11, 10:41 AM
P: 253
Quote Quote by Dotini View Post
General examples of polarity:
- positive/negative
- left/right
- male/female
- light/dark
- yin/yang

Respectfully,
Steve
how are you relating polarity with the root of charge?,the way you define it tells the types


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