ABB moved to tears at first day of trial

Ryan_m_b

By "rot in jail" I did not mean literally. I meant let him stay in jail for decades for his crime, as I stated that would drag out his story to one of a man who did an evil act and then spent decades in punishment because of it whilst the world moved on. Killing him would cement his place in history as it is now and makes his story far easier for idolisation and rationalisation.

Hobin

Because... it's cruel? Cruel is barbaric, no matter whether you're on the side of the good guys or the bad guys. An emotional need for vengeance does not an ethical decision make.

Fair enough. Those are rational reasons. I'd like to note that I'm against the death penalty myself, but it was mostly the 'rot in jail' that ticked me off a bit.

lmoh

Barbaric to me implies brutality, or physical violence. Imposing the death penalty appears to fit that definition quite well.

Hobin

You're only changing the definition of barbaric I used in my post to try to prove your point. Being barbaric does not necessarily mean violent.

rollcast

No, what would be wrong is if ABB gets what he wants and gets his lethal injection or bullet through his skull. That means he killed 77 people, got his media funfair to spout off his drivel, then he gets his death penalty so he can probably achieve what he would think of as his own martyrdom.

Let him rot in jail and show that you have to carry the can for your actions.

Hobin

What's the deal with all the rotting stuff, people?

I'm not particularly for giving ABB what he wants. However, I'm *also* not in favor of punishment purely for punishment's sake. Revenge is totally unacceptable to me if it doesn't serve an actual purpose other than satisfying the emotional we-want-to-lynch-him-needs of the people. The reasons Ryan mentioned, for example, are good enough reasons to not give him what he wants.

rollcast

Rot in jail is an idiomatic english phrase that basically means to like let someone stay in jail indefinately.

Hobin

*scratches head* In that case, I misunderstood. I thought that since Ryan already mentioned he didn't mean rot literally, you were trying to emphasise that you did mean it literally. My apologies, English isn't my first language.

lmoh

Well, that was what I took the word to mean, and you are certaintly free to disagree with me, but I am not going to argue any further on this point (which is just simply a semantic dispute).

lisab

Difficult times often bring out the best in people. Witness 40,000 (!) Norwegians who gathered to sing "Children of the Rainbow" - a song ABB reportedly hates, since it encourages peaceful coexistence.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/26...ler/?hpt=hp_t3

jreelawg

To me, the urge people feel to punishment, is the desire, perhaps unrealistic, that the person may come to be regretful of their actions. I think people feel emotionally disturbed that someone could do something so horrible, and not have remorse. But it is unreasonable to expect someone like ABB to ever be rehabilitated.

Otherwise, punishment is also for the sake of making an example, so that others know the consequences they may face if they attempt similar crimes.

And then there is punishment for the sake of revenge, which I am not in favor of.

But I think that the main point of incarceration, or execution, is to make the world safer, to remove a great threat to the lives of innocent people. I think that this is the most important aspect. And I think that when someone is so bad as ABB, the most reasonable thing is the death penalty. I could care less about wether or not this is what he wanted. What does it matter that he gets what he wanted or not at that point, where he is no longer existent on this earth, and therefore can no longer pose a threat.

Ryan_m_b

I disagree, it's possible he would pose more of a threat dead than alive. His death relegates his story to history and could martyrise him. Make no mistake whilst he is an evil individual he is not the only one in Europe, having such a final end to his story could allow other militant extremists to view him as a man who died defending Europe. Keeping him alive but seperate mitigates this.

Hobin

Creepiness does NOT justify the death penalty. Also, please take a look at everything Ryan said in the post before yours.

pftest

He started crying while the music of his youtube video was playing. So the music is what made him emotional.

Ryan_m_b

Possibly though it seems more likely that the indicated start of his video made him emotional.

arildno

Well, today, during the gruelling, never-ending testimony of the Chief Pathologist detailing the autopsy reports of the deceased, the main prosecutor Bejer Engh broke down for a moment, and was seen quietly drying some tears from her face.

On Friday, 7 autopsy reports were done, today 12. 50 more to go.

Breivik himself is mildly interested, but haven't shown any emotions worth mentioning.