An Infinite Time's Arrow is Impossible and Incompatible with Scientific Theory

Travis_King

Quick question:

You stand with your back against a wall and begin walking on a perfectly flat road. This road extends into spatial infinity in front of you, but that wall always remains where it is.

We would call this road infinitely long, no? As it does extend an infinite length in the direction you are walking. But what about the wall? Does the fact that the wall exists negate the "infinity-ness" of the road? Would the road be more infinite if the wall were removed and you were able to walk the road in the other direction as well?

james.goetz

Quote by Travis_King

Quick question:

You stand with your back against a wall and begin walking on a perfectly flat road. This road extends into spatial infinity in front of you, but that wall always remains where it is.

We would call this road infinitely long, no? As it does extend an infinite length in the direction you are walking. But what about the wall? Does the fact that the wall exists negate the "infinity-ness" of the road? Would the road be more infinite if the wall were removed and you were able to walk the road in the other direction as well?

Hi Travis, Yes you describe an infinite road with one finite end comparable to a geometric ray. Also consider that there is an infinite number of positive natural numbers and an infinite number of negative natural numbers and an infinite numbers natural numbers in multiples of 2, 3, 4, and ad infinitum. But how does this relate to the thread?

james.goetz

Travis, I see I missed the four question in your quick question.
QA1. yes
QA2. not sure what you're asking about the wall yet
QA3. no
QA4. no

james.goetz

Quote by Chronos

Zeno's paradox is based on the idea that space is infinitely divisible and Achilles never catches the turtle because it would take infinite time to cross the infinite number of infinitesimal points separating him from the turtle. If you replace infinitely divisible space with an infinitely divisible number of causal events, you have merely restated Zeno's paradox. Even Zeno knew something was wrong with this argument, but, not how to prove it.

Hi Chronos,

I see a huge difference. Zeno looked at a finite length such as a cubit and said that it is infinitely divisible and therefore nobody can travel a cubit, while in fact observation clearly indicates that uncountable animals have traveled a cubit. In my case, I observe the expansion of a flat universe and say that it will always expand and always have a finite size and age. Your comparison of Zeno's paradox and my observation is a false analogy.

thorium1010

Quote by james.goetz

In my case, I observe the expansion of a flat universe and say that it will always expand and always have a finite size and age.

I think the bolded part is important to understand that current observations appear that the universe will continue to expand that means it will expand infinitely and that includes time, there is no finite time in the future at which the universe will stop expanding (as per current observations).

james.goetz

Quote by thorium1010

I think the bolded part is important to understand that current observations appear that the universe will continue to expand that means it will expand infinitely and that includes time, there is no finite time in the future at which the universe will stop expanding (as per current observations).

Hi thorium1010: Yes, that is what I meant by "always."

james.goetz

I posted major revisions at An Infinite Lapse of Time is Impossible and Unscientific
An Infinite Lapse of Time is Impossible and Unscientific

I plan to discontinue replies at this thread and pick up on that thread. Thank you for all of your contributions to this thread.

*Jack Smart*

Semantics. Time is merely the measurement (calibration) of change. No change, no time. The issue isn't whether time is infinite, but whether change is infinite.

The "arrow of time" is a misleading borrowing of a spatial term. Does change have an arrow? If you consider trillions of quantum particles all doing their own thing a "direction" - I guess it might.

www.thisistime.co.uk

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james.goetz	Travis, I see I missed the four question in your quick question. QA1. yes QA2. not sure what you're asking about the wall yet QA3. no QA4. no

Jack Smart	Semantics. Time is merely the measurement (calibration) of change. No change, no time. The issue isn't whether time is infinite, but whether change is infinite. The "arrow of time" is a misleading borrowing of a spatial term. Does change have an arrow? If you consider trillions of quantum particles all doing their own thing a "direction" - I guess it might. www.thisistime.co.uk