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## Furor over Native American Fashion Costume

 Quote by Vagrant I believe that a mature way in which people deal with finding something offensive is to voice their objections in a rational manner. That does not equal to pushing their views on others. Whether you find merit in it, choose to engage in a discussion about it, oblige them or not is still up to you.
Or they could just be silent about it and accept that people are different.

I've been a vegetarian for more than 10 years. I have never said to people that I find it offensive if other people eat meat. Do you think I should say that?? How would you react if somebody comes up to you and says you shouldn't eat meat because people find it offensive??

I, personally, find nothing more annoying than vegetarians who try to make others feel guilty and who are even offended about the pokemon video game. For me, the situation is simple: if you don't like people to eat meat in your presence, then you should choose yourself not to go in that company. Don't start complaining about people offending you.

 Quote by Vagrant I believe that a mature way in which people deal with finding something offensive is to voice their objections in a rational manner. That does not equal to pushing their views on others. Whether you find merit in it, choose to engage in a discussion about it, oblige them or not is still up to you.

People don't have the right not to be offended. To say otherwise is inviting a whole mess of trouble along with some very outrageous restrictions on individual rights.

 Quote by micromass Or they could just be silent about it and accept that people are different. I've been a vegetarian for more than 10 years. I have never said to people that I find it offensive if other people eat meat. Do you think I should say that?? How would you react if somebody comes up to you and says you shouldn't eat meat because people find it offensive??
What I am talking about is that certain things are inappropriate in certain contexts. I think that it would be inappropriate and disrespectful for me to bring meat into a vegetarian's house, and that person would be justified in raising an objection.
But, if it's a place open to the general public, I would dismiss such a person as being over-sensitive.

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 Quote by Vagrant What I am talking about is that certain things are inappropriate in certain contexts. I think that it would be inappropriate and disrespectful for me to bring meat into a vegetarian's house, and that person would be justified in raising an objection. But, if it's a place open to the general public, I would dismiss such a person as being over-sensitive.
Yes. I agree with that.

 Quote by aquitaine People don't have the right not to be offended.
I'm still trying to figure this one out. Could you please say this another way?

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 Quote by zoobyshoe These issues are worth discussing but I think you're wandering off topic. The woman at the link is being criticized here for speaking out because her culture is being misrepresented. The question is, are people who object to being grossly misrepresented really out of line? I don't think so and I think everyone here would be agitated if they were misrepresented in a way they particularly disliked.
If no one is claiming the representation is accurate, how can one claim it is a misrepresentation?

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 Quote by Vagrant I'm still trying to figure this one out. Could you please say this another way?
It is the inverse of freedom of speech: people have a right to say things that are offensive. People do not have the right to silence speech that offends them -- in public.

Ie, bringing meat to a vegitarian's house is offensive and he can throw you out over it, but he doesn't have the power to prevent a McDonalds from opening up across the street.

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 Quote by micromass And I think people should act maturely if they are offended in some ways. People can get offended in a huge number of ways. Again: should we stop eating meat because it might be offensive? Should we not draw Muhammed cartoons because it might be offensive?? Or should the people who are offended grow a backbone and realize that they can't push their views on other people? I think the latter. I don't believe we should aim to please everybody. I don't think we even can do that. All we can do is aim to be the best person we can be. And I don't think that wearing religious symbols makes me a bad person. And if somebody is offended, then they should deal with it. They should accept that I am a different person who does not think like them.
What's your definition of acting maturely?

Is it to burn someone's house down every time they get offended? (probably not since it's a rhetorical question)

Is it to tell people you don't like it when they do that and tell them why?

Or is it to shut up and color and just take it?

Some people would say it takes some backbone to tell people when you're bothered by what other people do (especially if that person is bigger than you and has a violent temper).

By the same token, no one here knows how Native Americans as a whole feel about the fashion show. We just know that a few Native Americans were offended.

Just like a military veteran or two that aren't offended by people wearing the US flag apparel doesn't tell us how military veterans as whole feel about it.

If I had to guess, I'd guess not too many people are offended by either one. Some people get offended any time customs and courtesies are violated. Some people couldn't care less about any customs and courtesies even when they're just good manners. Most people probably notice when customs and courtesies are violated, but don't get very excited about it.

But, if it does bother them, I don't have a problem with them saying so. Doesn't mean it would change my behavior, but I'd at least consider their concerns if I knew it bothered them.

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 Quote by aquitaine People don't have the right not to be offended. To say otherwise is inviting a whole mess of trouble along with some very outrageous restrictions on individual rights.
I, too, find this a very strange way to say things.

It almost sounds as if you're saying that you don't have the right to say anything about things you don't like. As if you're saying the offender deserves more rights than the offended.

I think it's more accurate to say the offended person doesn't have the right to force the offender to change.

If the offender is offended by the offended's comments about what the offender did, then what would you suggest the offender do in response to the offended's offensive comments? (geez, I wish I could say this 10 times fast)

 Recognitions: Gold Member Years ago, my great-aunt bought her husband a 4-point Pendleton blanket (the kind that was white with bold colored stripes) and hired a seamstress to make him a heavy coat out of it. He was a pretty big guy and hard to fit, but the seamstress did a wonderful job, and it looked great on him. Since most of my mother's side of the family is French-Canadian and Native American (Metis), nobody thought twice about it. It probably helped that about half the town shared our heritage. He got lots of compliments on that coat. Even 30+ years ago, those trade blankets were $$. He explained to me that the "points" woven into the hem of the blanket indicated not only the quality of the blanket, but also served as an indicator of how many beaver pelts would be required to trade for such a blanket. He was a massive, ruddy-faced guy and could wear that well. Perhaps part of the critique over the VS costume was that a skinny white female was depicted wearing a ridiculously long flowing bonnet (reserved for chiefs of the Plains tribes) and that jarred the sensitivities of members of those tribes. I know that it was just a costume for a fashion show, but if you could come to central Maine when people of woodlands Native American descent hold their annual gatherings, you would see how seriously the participants take their heritage. The French part of my family came from northeastern Maine (bordering NB and PQ) and I'm not even sure whether I'm descended from MicMacs or Maliseets. The French trappers and traders intermarried with native women, and at some point the Roman Catholic church became the record-keepers of those marriages, and records are scant. Blog Entries: 14  Quote by turbo Years ago, my great-aunt bought her husband a 4-point Pendleton blanket (the kind that was white with bold colored stripes) and hired a seamstress to make him a heavy coat out of it. He was a pretty big guy and hard to fit, but the seamstress did a wonderful job, and it looked great on him. Since most of my mother's side of the family is French-Canadian and Native American (Metis), nobody thought twice about it. It probably helped that about half the town shared our heritage. He got lots of compliments on that coat. Even 30+ years ago, those trade blankets were$$\$. He explained to me that the "points" woven into the hem of the blanket indicated not only the quality of the blanket, but also served as an indicator of how many beaver pelts would be required to trade for such a blanket. He was a massive, ruddy-faced guy and could wear that well. Perhaps part of the critique over the VS costume was that a skinny white female was depicted wearing a ridiculously long flowing bonnet (reserved for chiefs of the Plains tribes) and that jarred the sensitivities of members of those tribes. I know that it was just a costume for a fashion show, but if you could come to central Maine when people of woodlands Native American descent hold their annual gatherings, you would see how seriously the participants take their heritage. The French part of my family came from northeastern Maine (bordering NB and PQ) and I'm not even sure whether I'm descended from MicMacs or Maliseets. The French trappers and traders intermarried with native women, and at some point the Roman Catholic church became the record-keepers of those marriages, and records are scant.
It would be nice if they teach more about heritage in schools. Else, one day our heritage and culture will only be on bikinis or underwears.

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 Quote by rootX It would be nice if they teach more about heritage in schools. Else, one day our heritage and culture will only be on bikinis or underwears.
Probably depends on the school system and I may have just gotten lucky by coincidence, but both cities I attended school in taught the cultural heritage of the native Americans that lived in the area. I had "Wichita history" which included the Plains tribes when I lived in Kansas and I had "Ohio history" which included the tribes of Ohio. "Ohio history" was more comprehensive, but that was a junior high course, while "Wichita history" was something taught in elementary school.

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 Quote by BobG Probably depends on the school system and I may have just gotten lucky by coincidence, but both cities I attended school in taught the cultural heritage of the native Americans that lived in the area. I had "Wichita history" which included the Plains tribes when I lived in Kansas and I had "Ohio history" which included the tribes of Ohio. "Ohio history" was more comprehensive, but that was a junior high course, while "Wichita history" was something taught in elementary school.
We had none of that when I was a kid in Maine, and in fact we were looked down upon by lots of Anglos that didn't know or appreciate the contributions of our forebears. Forced assimilation results in the loss of valuable knowledge.

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 Quote by rootX It would be nice if they teach more about heritage in schools. Else, one day our heritage and culture will only be on bikinis or underwears.
This would benefit only those who gave two cents about heritage and culture in the first place.

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 Quote by WannabeNewton This would benefit only those who gave two cents about heritage and culture in the first place.
Or perhaps the accumulated knowledge that the ethnic groups could contribute. This is not a trivial thing. I learned valuable stuff from my family that is barely mentioned today. I grew up poor, as did most of my family, but we valued the contributions of the great and great-great elders. If you can't spend the time and effort to talk with them, it can be lost.

 Mentor Blog Entries: 4 How far back do we take this? I'm offended that Christoper Columbus wrongly gets credit for discovering America, he never even set foot on the American Continent, so I want Columbus Day eradicated as a national holiday.

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 Quote by WannabeNewton This would benefit only those who gave two cents about heritage and culture in the first place.
I think you hit the nail on the head, WBN. Some people treasure their heritage, some don't give a rip. If those two groups of people could at least *try* to understand each other a bit.