Using MgSO4 for Producing H2SO4?

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The discussion centers on the chemical reactions involving phosphorus and copper sulfate, specifically the formation of copper phosphide and sulfuric acid. The initial inquiry explores whether magnesium or calcium sulfates could replace copper sulfate in a similar reaction, but responses indicate that this is unlikely due to the stability of copper phosphide, which does not react with water. The conversation also addresses the potential for mixing oxalic acid and magnesium sulfate to produce sulfuric acid and magnesium oxalate. It is noted that while a weaker acid typically cannot produce a stronger one, metathesis could allow for this if the weaker acid's anion is precipitated out, although concentrated solutions of the stronger acid may not be achievable. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding chemical stability and the nuances of acid-base reactions.
JeffEvarts
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Background: Phosphorus + Copper Sulfate:

I know that the following (unbalanced) reaction proceeds from left to right from this reference, possibly with the formation of elemental copper as well.

P4 + CuSO4 + H2O -> Cu3P + H3PO4 + H2SO4.​

This reference (which gets the stochiometry and formula slightly different) agrees.

The net-net is that Phosphorus, Water, and M1SO4 produce (very dilute) H2SO4.

Question One: Would this work with an alkali such as Magnesium or Calcium Sulfates in place of the copper sulfate?

P4 + MgSO4 + H2O -> Mg3P2 + H3PO4 + H2SO4?​

Question Two: It seems unlikely that a weaker acid could make a stronger one, but metathesis is a powerful ally. Can you really mix oxalic acid and magnesium sulfate to produce sulfuric acid and magnesium oxalate? Anyone tried it IRL?

Thanks for your thoughts,
-Jeff
 
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Mg and Ca are not alkali metals. You are one column in teh periodic table over from the alkali metals (Li, Na, K, etc.)
 
JeffEvarts said:
Question One: Would this work with an alkali such as Magnesium or Calcium Sulfates in place of the copper sulfate?

Highly unlikely. Copper phosphide is very stable and doesn't react with water, which can't be said about other phosphides.

Question Two: It seems unlikely that a weaker acid could make a stronger one, but metathesis is a powerful ally. Can you really mix oxalic acid and magnesium sulfate to produce sulfuric acid and magnesium oxalate? Anyone tried it IRL?

If you can remove weaker acid anion by precipitating it out of the solution, you can be left with a stronger acid, precipitation being the driving force of the process. It won't let you make concentrated solutions of the stronger acid, but is definitely possible.
 
And yet

In response to my statement:
Would this work with an alkali such as Magnesium
Steamking responded:
SteamKing said:
Mg and Ca are not alkali metals. You are one column in teh periodic table over from the alkali metals (Li, Na, K, etc.)

That is true, but I just referred to them as alkalis. I believe the column group containing Ca, Mg, etc. is called the alkaline Earth metals. Or maybe that's not what they're called anymore. It has been a long time since I was in class studying.

-Jeff
 
Borek said:
Highly unlikely. Copper phosphide is very stable and doesn't react with water, which can't be said about other phosphides.

If you can remove weaker acid anion by precipitating it out of the solution, you can be left with a stronger acid, precipitation being the driving force of the process. It won't let you make concentrated solutions of the stronger acid, but is definitely possible.

Q1: That's a shame
Q2: That's actually pretty cool.

Again I find myself thanking you, Borek.

-Jeff
 

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