Register to reply

Cuestion of black holes

by Clausius2
Tags: black, cuestion, holes
Share this thread:
Clausius2
#19
Sep29-03, 03:15 PM
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
Clausius2's Avatar
P: 1,479
your answer doesn't like me at all.
Let's see your telling:
-We suppose virtual particle going faster than light, so the gravity can "get out" of the black hole, and be felt by anybody around it.
-Now you say this particle are virtual, because can't be detected.Therefore they can't transport any information.

>>>>>Therefore there is a contradiction, then the black hole could not be felt by nothing if the phenomena is not described in terms of General Relativity.

Sorry if i am too heavy.
pmb
#20
Sep29-03, 05:42 PM
P: n/a
Originally posted by Clausius2
your answer doesn't like me at all.
Let's see your telling:
-We suppose virtual particle going faster than light, so the gravity can "get out" of the black hole, and be felt by anybody around it.
-Now you say this particle are virtual, because can't be detected.Therefore they can't transport any information.

>>>>>Therefore there is a contradiction, then the black hole could not be felt by nothing if the phenomena is not described in terms of General Relativity.

Sorry if i am too heavy.
An oberver inside the horizon cannot communicate with observers outside the horizon by using virtual partilces. That does not mean that virtual particles can't get out.

Pmb
Labguy
#21
Sep30-03, 12:30 PM
Sci Advisor
Labguy's Avatar
P: 734
Originally posted by pmb
Nothing can be detected to travel faster than light. These are virtual particles and therefore they cannot be detected. Therefore they can't be used to send information faster than light.

Pete
Virtual particles can be detected, they have been produced (detected) at Fermilab and CERN many times. They just happen to have very short life spans. Also, Hawking radiation from a small BH would come from huge amounts of virtual particles and would certainly be detected as the BH would appear to be white hot, the whole EM spectrum.
Labguy
#22
Sep30-03, 12:42 PM
Sci Advisor
Labguy's Avatar
P: 734
Originally posted by Clausius2
your answer doesn't like me at all.
Let's see your telling:
-We suppose virtual particle going faster than light, so the gravity can "get out" of the black hole, and be felt by anybody around it.
-Now you say this particle are virtual, because can't be detected.Therefore they can't transport any information.

>>>>>Therefore there is a contradiction, then the black hole could not be felt by nothing if the phenomena is not described in terms of General Relativity.

Sorry if i am too heavy.
Gravity doesn't need to "get out" of a BH or any other object, and the production of virtual particles doesn't seem to me to be related to the "gravity question".

Just think of the "gravity" of a BH or any other mass as being the curvature of space-time directly proportional to the mass. Other objects just react to the affect (effect?) of the curvature, it doesn't have to "travel" to any specific object/mass. It is always there whether or not another object is near enough to notice the affect.
marcus
#23
Sep30-03, 12:52 PM
Astronomy
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
marcus's Avatar
P: 23,235
Originally posted by Labguy
Gravity doesn't need to "get out" of a BH or any other object, and the production of virtual particles doesn't seem to me to be related to the "gravity question".

Just think of the "gravity" of a BH or any other mass as being the curvature of space-time directly proportional to the mass. Other objects just react to the affect (effect?) of the curvature, it doesn't have to "travel" to any specific object/mass. It is always there whether or not another object is near enough to notice the affect.
Labguy, good to see a post from you!
for some reason either you've not been around much or
I've been missing your posts

yes! the gravitational field is the metric
no problem with action at a distance, no need for "particles"
curvature propagates
things are effected by the field in their vicinity at that moment
effect (noun) is spelled with e
and affect (verb) with an a
and gravity is an effect of geometry---an effect of the curvature whatever it happens to be right where you are at that moment
which is simply to say "amen" to your post


Register to reply

Related Discussions
Black holes and white holes Cosmology 5
Re: White Holes are time-reversed black holes? General Physics 0
Are black holes black afterall? Astronomy & Astrophysics 22
White holes, black holes Astronomy & Astrophysics 6