What is the work required to push three protons to form an nucleus?

In summary, Marius describes how to calculate the work needed to push protons together. First, you bring in the first proton from infinity and that doesn't require any work. Next, you bring in the second proton and the work needed to do this is given by the product of the force between the two protons and the distance between them. Finally, you bring in the third proton and the work is the sum of the work needed for the first two steps.
  • #1
Jonsson
79
0
Hello there,

Imagine that a nucleus consists of three atoms arranged in a equilateral triangle with the length of each side, ##R=2 \rm fm##.

Our protons starts infinitely far away. What is the work required to push these protons together in order to overcome the electric force between them?

I imagine that at any point in time, the force between each pair of protons is given by:

$$
F_E = k\frac{q_0^2}{r^2}
$$

Since each proton sees force from two protons, each at an angle ##\theta = 60^\circ## relative to the other since the triangle has angles $60^\circ$. The magnitude of the sum of these two force vectors must be given by:

$$
\|\mathbf{F}\| = 2\cdot\cos(\theta/2)F_E = 3^{1/2}k\frac{q_0^2}{r^2}
$$

We can then compute the work by letting ##F_{net} = 3 \, \|\mathbf{F}\|##:
$$
W_{\infty\to R} = \int_\infty^R\,F_{net}\,{\rm d}l = 3^{3/2}kq_0\int_\infty^R \frac{1}{r^2}\,{\rm d}l
$$

which is incorrect.

What of the previous is incorrect?

Thank you for your time.

Kind regards,
Marius
 
Last edited:
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  • #2
You have used r variably as the distance between the protons and as the direction of motion. Why do you not just compute the individual potentials between each pair of protons and add them up?

Note: A bit of nomenclature, a nucleus does not consist of atoms, it consists of nucleons (protons and neutrons). An atom has a nucleus which is in a bound state with a number of electrons. A molecule consists of atoms.
 
  • #3
You are right, silly me. I fixed that now.

I could do as you say, but I am trying to learn what is wrong with my understanding of physics since I end up getting the wrong answer.

Are you able to help me work it out? :)

Thank you for your time.

Kind regards,
Marius
 
  • #4
Jonsson said:
You are right, silly me. I fixed that now.

I could do as you say, but I am trying to learn what is wrong with my understanding of physics since I end up getting the wrong answer.

Are you able to help me work it out? :)

Thank you for your time.

Kind regards,
Marius
You have to do in three steps. First you bring in the first proton from infinity. That requires no work. Then you bring in the second one. What is the work needed to bring that second one near the first one (note that there is only repulsion from ONE proton in that step). Finally you bring in the third one. You then add up the works for the three steps (the first work being trivially zero)
 
  • #5
Thanks!
 
  • #6
I'm not getting the same force equation that you have. Can you draw a picture and show how you oriented your system with respect to your axes?
 

1. What is the definition of work in physics?

In physics, work is defined as the amount of energy transferred to an object by a force acting on that object over a certain distance.

2. How is work related to the formation of a nucleus?

The work required to push three protons to form a nucleus is related to the energy needed to overcome the repulsive force between the positively charged protons. This work is necessary in order to bring the protons close enough together to form a stable nucleus.

3. What factors affect the amount of work required to form a nucleus?

The amount of work required to form a nucleus depends on the distance between the protons, the strength of the repulsive force between them, and the speed at which they are pushed together.

4. How is the work calculated in this scenario?

The work required to push three protons to form a nucleus can be calculated using the formula W = Fd, where W is work, F is the force applied, and d is the distance over which the force is applied.

5. Is the work required to form a nucleus the same for all elements?

No, the work required to form a nucleus varies for different elements as it depends on the number of protons and the strength of the repulsive force between them. The larger the number of protons, the more work is required to form a stable nucleus.

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