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I can't believe the news everytime I hear these things.. they say 20,000 were killed in the Bam Earthquake.. and a major Iranian cultural heritage was destoyed at the same time (2000 yr old citadel).
You must have missed the retraction of that story. The museum curator was misquoted. The vast majority of the items reported lost (some 20,000) were in a vault in a sewer. Most of the rest were in the homes of the museum workers.Originally posted by Adam
Together with the items destroyed and stolen from Baghdad's museum during the invasion...
Originally posted by russ_watters
You must have missed the retraction of that story. The museum curator was misquoted. The vast majority of the items reported lost (some 20,000) were in a vault in a sewer. Most of the rest were in the homes of the museum workers.
Originally posted by Adam
Iran is a 3rd world nation?
Originally posted by Carlos Hernandez
Stories are often retracted after pressure from the government. This may not be the same case, but I would not be surprised if it were true. US soldiers looting Iraqi museum does not make Bush look good, so a retraction may have been necessary to maintain the status quo.
Heh, US soldiers? You misread the story. There was never any allegation of that from anywhere (however, I can't say I've checked every conspiracy theory site - I'm talking about the mainstream press story).Originally posted by Carlos Hernandez
Stories are often retracted after pressure from the government. This may not be the same case, but I would not be surprised if it were true. US soldiers looting Iraqi museum does not make Bush look good, so a retraction may have been necessary to maintain the status quo.
Yeah, I really hate how every thread turns into a 'the US is evil' thread. 20,000+ people died in an earthquake - but wait, that's not important, the US is evil! And those evil bastards sent rescue teams. Bastards.Why don't you guys ever drop the constant conspiracy theories, and simply acknowledge that this was a horrible loss of life (instead of another chance for you to get on your soapbox about how evil the US is).
Originally posted by Adam
Iran was a "developing nation" six thousand years ago. Good grief. The ignorance of some people is astronishing.
http://www.un.org/ga/coi/statements03/iran.htmMaintaining and improving the activities of the DPI in the areas of the special interest to developing countries is very important for us as a developing country.
Its pretty simple, Adam. The terms "third world" and "developing" are referring to industrialization. Iran is not a fully-industrialized nation.Originally posted by Adam
Yeah. Looks like a developing nation to me.
Iran was a "developing nation" six thousand years ago. Good grief. The ignorance of some people is astronishing.
So planeloads of aid workers and medical supplies are a manifestation of our hostility? Frankly, this is a validation of what I and others (Bush) have been saying all along. The government (specifically, the clerics who are really in control) is motivated soley by blind hatred toward the US. They endeavour to keep their populace under control through fear and hatred of us. Fortunately they are failing, but its no wonder Iran is/was a hotbed of terrorism. Its their rallying point."once again demonstrated that America's interfering and hostile policy against Iran has not altered at all."
Originally posted by russ_watters
Heh, US soldiers? You misread the story. There was never any allegation of that from anywhere (however, I can't say I've checked every conspiracy theory site - I'm talking about the mainstream press story). Yeah, I really hate how every thread turns into a 'the US is evil' thread.
Originally posted by Adam
Well, I am very surprised that an Iranian would refer to Iran in such a way.
Iran and USA have almost identical life expectancy. Similar population growth rate. The USA has six times as many (by percentage) people infected with HIV. USA has higher literacy (dropping by the year). Iran has a higher GDP growth rate. USA has better rates for poverty and unemployment. Iran has an undustrial growth rate of 5.5%, while the USA has -0.4%.
Yep, you're right. Iran is getting better, while the USA is getting worse. I guess the fact that the state is improving does make it a developing nation. The same must then apply to Australia.
Originally posted by phatmonky
You are so ****ing smarter than me. haha.
Originally posted by Adam
Of course I am. What's your point? I still don't see why you said Iran is third world. It seems you think countries can be either superpowers OR third world, and nothing else.
I'm not, it's an honest appraisal and from it's recent past a very positive thing hopefully it is the beginning of many more positive "developments" Some off the top of my head would be women's rights, religious freedoms, freedom of the press and the a biggie from the Universal Declaration of Human rights "The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures. In my mind that is what brings a country out of the "3rd world" status and into the 1st and it somehow seems to me devoloping to 1st world status and the right to self govern go somewhat hand in hand. The success of Israel a democracy in the midst of tyranny a good example.Originally posted by Adam
Well, I am very surprised that an Iranian would refer to Iran in such a way.
I'm sorry, I didn't attend the public school system so we may not be seeing things from the same vantage point but please do tell me how Iran's total population life expectancy of 69 is almost identical to the US's 77?Iran and USA have almost identical life expectancy.
I'm not really sure that's true as I believe the US's population growth can be mainly attributed to immigration but I could be mistaken.Similar population growth rate.
You know..it's just quite possible that this can be attributed to greater sexual freedom for both men and women as opposed to developing or undeveloping.The USA has six times as many (by percentage) people infected with HIV.
well yes it does. Of course, that may have something to do with Iran's GDP purchasing power parity being around $460 billion and the US's being over 10 trillion. Or per capita Iran's at 7 thousan and the US's at 36..obviously Iran has a bit more room for improvement.Iran has a higher GDP growth rate.
you seem to minimize the signifance of this...low poverty and high employment are also measures of developed or developing status. That the U.S. poverty rate hovers around 13% and Iran's is over 40...is significant.USA has better rates for poverty and unemployment.
same issue as that of the GDP although the issue of industrial growth and the loss of it are rather prickly points in the U.S. particulary for the "blue" collar workers..maybe less so for the "white" collar.Iran has an undustrial growth rate of 5.5%, while the USA has -0.4%.
I think you need to get out a bit more..maybe a little sunshine will help?Yep, you're right. Iran is getting better, while the USA is getting worse. I guess the fact that the state is improving does make it a developing nation. The same must then apply to Australia.
Originally posted by Adam
I
And "leading Iranian", because he works for the UN? My ex-girlfriend works for the UN too.
How can you say Iran is a third world country? Did you not read the definitions I supplied?In my mind that is what brings a country out of the "3rd world" status and into the 1st and it somehow seems to me devoloping to 1st world status and the right to self govern go somewhat hand in hand.
Israel is hardly a good example of any sort of positive governmental method.The success of Israel a democracy in the midst of tyranny a good example.
Definition of "ethnic cleansing": http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ethnic cleansing Note the definition is: "The systematic elimination of an ethnic group or groups from a region or society, as by deportation, forced emigration, or genocide." Now, Israel is doing at least two of those things.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7567019%255E1702,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,917834,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4629052-103681,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2828985.stm
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2828985.stm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/unitedstates/unpolicy/gen2003/0115us.htm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/veto/2002/1223israel.htm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/B6E27ADF-9E5B-45CD-A4CD-403A3BCF3D39.htm
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7543145%255E401,00.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/EE06A7BC-F8D2-4CE9-8A9F-DC2A62B2C133.htm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D8B2E59A-F705-48A7-B6F7-588E9F37B5B9.htm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/67979658-79FE-4CD1-83A4-7D378A081848.htm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/67979658-79FE-4CD1-83A4-7D378A081848.htm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7D5620B5-5846-4AD8-8441-BB1B14B6A48A.htm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D3F4ACBB-A265-4268-AFEC-6996D0F835D0.htm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1BF523F3-A395-451D-9910-36B7BF02B7DB.htm
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7473991%255E401,00.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/AE871B47-A5D9-428E-B8E5-26E52D387622.htm
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,137218-1-9,00.html
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/990902/1999090222.html
http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/6686f45896f15dbc852567ae00530132/7738125ef7c2ca9bc1256c4b00470a79?OpenDocument
http://abc.net.au/news/2002/11/item20021127185951_1.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/07/23/mideast/
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/4227466.htm
http://www.ummah.com/inewsletter/massacres/palestine/index14.htm
http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/breaking_news/4227466.htm
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/03/04/News/News.44530.html
http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/95/148/05_3.html
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/020926/afp/020926130246top.html
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=1&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=1904&docdb=pr2000&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=2&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=1524&docdb=pr1996&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=4&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=1736&docdb=pr2000&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1
http://srch1.un.org/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1038396983&view=unsearch&docrank=7&numhitsfound=58&query=Israel%20civilians%20dead&&docid=804&docdb=pr1996&dbname=web&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1
http://electronicintifada.net/forreference/keyfigures/sharon.html
And finally, the diary of Rachel Corrie makes interesting reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,916246,00.html
Well duh, they are within only 8 per cent of each other. That's a pretty small difference. Maybe home-schooling uses a different numerical system, I don't know.I'm sorry, I didn't attend the public school system so we may not be seeing things from the same vantage point but please do tell me how Iran's total population life expectancy of 69 is almost identical to the US's 77?
The cause is irrelevent. Population growth rates are almost identical.I'm not really sure that's true as I believe the US's population growth can be mainly attributed to immigration but I could be mistaken.
That is another discussion, and I will start a thread on it in the Value Theory forum.You know..it's just quite possible that this can be attributed to greater sexual freedom for both men and women as opposed to developing or undeveloping.
GDP growth rate is a good indication of economic health.well yes it does. Of course, that may have something to do with Iran's GDP purchasing power parity being around $460 billion and the US's being over 10 trillion.
I don't know how I minimised it. In fact I stated quite clearly that the USA is superior to Iran in this regard. The interesting thing about this is Iran's industry is growing, which means more employment, while the USA's is dropping, which means less employment. This is one reason why you can indeed say, as two of you did, that Iran is a developing nation (not a third world nation).you seem to minimize the signifance of this...
What it means is that civil rights improve, unions gain influence, labour costs increase, and the companies then move industry overseas, resulting in negative industrial growth and increasing unemployment. That's the USA. Iran is growing.same issue as that of the GDP...
[sarcasm]I think you need to get out a bit more..maybe a little sunshine will help?
Originally posted by kat
Small point. Mr. Mehdi Mollahosseini does not work for the UN. He works for Iran as a representative of his country to the global body of the U.N.. That does indeed make him a "Leading Iranian" I doubt that your x girlfriend was sent as the official Australian representative to speak on behalf of Australia and before the U.N...but if indeed she was then she is also..despite any personal relationship with yourself...a leading Australian.
Did you read them?Originally posted by Adam
How can you say Iran is a third world country? Did you not read the definitions I supplied?
You said yourself that Iran is developing:The developing nations of Africa, Asia, and Latin American.
It just seems to me you don't like the connotation it has for you.it does seem appropriate to refer to it as developing.
Well, I did some of both public and private school and in neither was 77 8% higher than 69. Its 8 percentage POINTS, but 10 percent:Well duh, they are within only 8 per cent of each other. That's a pretty small difference. Maybe home-schooling uses a different numerical system, I don't know.
Originally posted by Adam
[sarcasm]
I don't know how your little ad hominem applies in any way to this thread, but let me assure you that I honestly appreciate your concern.
[/sarcasm]
Originally posted by Adam
I'm not going to re-post it all for this baboon...
Good grief. The reading comprehension skills are declining.Did you read them?
Iran is developing, yes. But it is not, and never has been, a third world nation.You said yourself that Iran is developing: It just seems to me you don't like the connotation it has for you.
Fine, I should have said "less than 8 percentage points". Happy?Well, I did some of both public and private school and in neither was 77 8% higher than 69. Its 8 percentage POINTS, but 10 percent:
Yes, actually. It's quite simple. You obviously can't read what has already been posted. This is not my biased opinion or character assassination, merely an observation of what has transpired. Deal with it.Originally posted by phatmonky
ad hominem is a great thing to yell about when it doesn't pertain to you, isn't it
Yeah, actually when the subject first came up I checked with dictionary.com to see what they had to say of the usage of the term. I will say that dictionaries do not always reflect common usage of terms as they are not able to neccesarily keep pace with what in reality is fluid and not stagnant. This becomes particularly obvious when a study of the media/print usage of the term third world is attempted.Originally posted by Adam
How can you say Iran is a third world country? Did you not read the definitions I supplied?
Originally posted by Adam
Third world nation: Non-industrialised nations in Africa, Central America, South America, and Asia which were not strictly part of the NATO or Warsaw Pact alliances.
1.The developing nations of Africa, Asia, and Latin American.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Well, I was speaking in regards to economic indicators. However, according to the U.N.s 2003 HUMAN DEVELOPMENT INDEX (The HDI measures achievements in terms of life expectancy, educational attainment and adjusted real income)Israel rates 22, Iran lags far behind at 106 and amazements of all amazements (particularly concerning the where the media focuses) The "Occupied" Palestinian Territories fall in ahead of Iran at the 98th spot! OOPS! And I'd get into why Palestine decreased in the HDI index after it was turned over to the Pa's authority but then..that's for another thread isn't it?Israel is hardly a good example of any sort of positive governmental method.
Not 8 percent..8 years. significant, particularly when comparing countries. Australia have a 3 year overall advantage to the U.S.Well duh, they are within only 8 per cent of each other. That's a pretty small difference.
It is relevant when you consider birth rates as an indicator of development status. Particularly how it is influenced by increased female education etc.The cause is irrelevent. Population growth rates are almost identical.
it's not really for another discussion. But I'll leave it at mentioning that Iran health minister has publicly acknowledged that HIV in Iran is grossly(5x or greater) under-reported and the term "ticking timebomb" has been used frequently in regards to an HIV epidemic in Iran.That is another discussion, and I will start a thread on it in the Value Theory forum.
it's one indicator and I'm glad that it's positive growth for Iran..but suggesting that Iran's economy is superior or even comparable to the U.S. is ridiculous.GDP growth rate is a good indication of economic health.
Iran's industry is growing and yes that usually means greater employment. However, Iran also suffers a very large issue of lack of skilled labor and a droping educational rate of the tune of almost 30%. Also, given the present possiblilty of future civil upheaval Iran's growth could be viewed as "shakey". On the other hand the United states industry has been dropping but there has been no significant pattern of unemployment and in fact recently an increase in employment.I don't know how I minimised it. In fact I stated quite clearly that the USA is superior to Iran in this regard. The interesting thing about this is Iran's industry is growing, which means more employment, while the USA's is dropping, which means less employment.
I think you should recieve, in addition to your current and rather interesting title, the title of "king of ad hominem". I'm actually surprised that Zero let's you get away with what he does. It seems he should have at the very least edited out your Baboon reference (among many others).[sarcasm]
I don't know how your little ad hominem applies in any way to this thread, but let me assure you that I honestly appreciate your concern.
[/sarcasm]
If you are the leadership that Australia has to offer...I'm rather frightened for Australia. I hardly think that comparing your government employment is comparable to being your countries representative to the U.N. and being given the right by your government to speak for the entire country on a global basis can be compared. Stop playing the idiot. /ad hominem /ad hominemOriginally posted by Adam
Heck, I worked for Australia. Two of my cousins do still. Are we "leading Australians"? Well, we actually are, but that's classified.
Originally posted by kat
I'm actually surprised that Zero let's you get away with what he does. It seems he should have at the very least edited out your Baboon reference (among many others). [/B]
I used the source I linked to earlier, for your convenience. You could thank me for it. I like to assist in peoples' education now and then.Yeah, actually when the subject first came up I checked with dictionary.com to see what they had to say of the usage of the term. I will say that dictionaries do not always reflect common usage of terms as they are not able to neccesarily keep pace with what in reality is fluid and not stagnant. This becomes particularly obvious when a study of the media/print usage of the term third world is attempted.
On the other hand it would seem that you don't need a dictionary to reflect fluid use as you seem to be quiet capable of being fluid in your own transcripting of the dictionaries definitions.
Yep, so it is, almost 8 years. I should pay more attention.Not 8 percent..8 years. significant, particularly when comparing countries. Australia have a 3 year overall advantage to the U.S.
One of the biggest differences, to me, is the number of medical professionals per population. You will note that the USA is far higher. However, class polarisation is removing them from the reach of the general population. Health insurance there is a joke. Without some serious work, the healthcare system in the USA is in big trouble. Iran, on the other hand, is already crap in comparison, yet improving.It is relevant when you consider birth rates as an indicator of development status. Particularly how it is influenced by increased female education etc.
Hopefully you are aware that every country with statistics on HIV infection includes some measure they consider as "not reported". Particularly in the USA, hispanic and black citizens have rather limited access to the healthcare system, and are less likely to report such conditions.it's not really for another discussion. But I'll leave it at mentioning that Iran health minister has publicly acknowledged that HIV in Iran is grossly(5x or greater) under-reported and the term "ticking timebomb" has been used frequently in regards to an HIV epidemic in Iran.
I never suggested that. What you have done there is what is known as a Straw Man argument, and is of course a logical fallacy. You can read about it here http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html if you want.it's one indicator and I'm glad that it's positive growth for Iran..but suggesting that Iran's economy is superior or even comparable to the U.S. is ridiculous.
The UNICEF organisation gives these literacy figures:Iran's industry is growing and yes that usually means greater employment. However, Iran also suffers a very large issue of lack of skilled labor and a droping educational rate of the tune of almost 30%. Also, given the present possiblilty of future civil upheaval Iran's growth could be viewed as "shakey". On the other hand the United states industry has been dropping but there has been no significant pattern of unemployment and in fact recently an increase in employment.
That is off-topic.I think you should recieve, in addition to your current and rather interesting title, the title of "king of ad hominem". I'm actually surprised that Zero let's you get away with what he does. It seems he should have at the very least edited out your Baboon reference (among many others).
Originally posted by kat
If you are the leadership that Australia has to offer...I'm rather frightened for Australia. I hardly think that comparing your government employment is comparable to being your countries representative to the U.N. and being given the right by your government to speak for the entire country on a global basis can be compared. Stop playing the idiot. /ad hominem /ad hominem
Originally posted by Adam
1) You missed the point entirely. To put it simply: I worked for Australia, yet I was not involved in the leaderhip of Australia. Taht gentleman works for Iran; why do you say he is involved in some leadership capacity?
2) If you knew what we do, you would not be frightened of Australia, but frightened by it.
3) I was given the ultimate right to speak for my government in the ultimate manner.
4) That entire post of yours seems both off-topic and entirely ad hominem. I think you should relax a little.
No, diplomats rarely warrant a mention at all here.Diplomat to the UN is a fairly high power here - maybe it's competely different in your world.
I like Australia too. I hate its government though.Well I'm neither. I like Australia.
Diplomacy is not the ultimate authority. Physical force is the ultimate authority. The military is a nation's ultimate expression of policy.I hope this line isn't some bull**** attempt to make your military service sound like a diplomatic mission to the UN.
Originally posted by Adam
Diplomacy is not the ultimate authority. Physical force is the ultimate authority. The military is a nation's ultimate expression of policy.
There is nothing shady about my military service. I was granted the strongest voice my country has to offer.I figured I was right. I commend you for your military service, but drop the shady act in order to fulfill your own points here. It's grossly unneeded.
I never said it was. If you would care to actually read these posts rather than skim over in your hurry to launch further ad hominems, you might see that I agreed with Kat.In fact, further, just how is that your definition of Iran as devleoping is greater than that of this Iranian diplomat?
Iran is developing. Iran is not a third world nation. "Developing" and "third world" are not the same thing. Why is this so difficult for you?Also, how is it that you have gone from saying they are developed, to 'developing but not third world'?
The Iran earthquake was caused by the movement of tectonic plates beneath the Earth's surface. Iran is located in a region known as the Alpide Belt, which is prone to earthquakes due to the collision of the Arabian and Eurasian plates.
The earthquake, which occurred on December 26, 2003, had a magnitude of 6.6 on the Richter scale. This is considered a strong earthquake and can cause significant damage to structures and infrastructure.
The earthquake resulted in the deaths of approximately 20,000 people. This was due to a combination of factors, including the strength of the earthquake, the population density in the affected area, and the vulnerability of buildings and structures.
The 2000-year-old citadel, known as the Bam Citadel, was a UNESCO World Heritage site and a significant historical and cultural landmark in Iran. Its destruction was a significant loss to the country's cultural heritage.
Unfortunately, earthquakes cannot be predicted with certainty. While scientists can monitor and study fault lines, there is currently no reliable method for predicting when and where an earthquake will occur. However, ongoing research and advancements in technology are helping to improve our understanding of earthquakes and may one day lead to better prediction methods.