Is sex an integral part of love

[jackson6612]

Is sex an integral part of love especially when speaking of love between a man and woman? The other day I was thing that how could a couple say they love each despite being swingers? Perhaps, it varies from one individual to another but 'possessiveness' is an important part of love and I think it has something to so with sex. Probably, that possessiveness streak entwines love and sex in the same thread.

Please note that I intend offense to none and not saying that a swinger couldn't be a true lover.

 

[jackson6612]

Please let me hear your views on this. Thanks.

 

[DanP]

There are relations and relations, and some ppl are monogamous, others have a stronger drive to have multiple partners.

Yes, sex is a integral part of a love story. (ofc, there are other types of love and close social relationships, as its the love for your kin and so on, and those do not usually contain a sexual element)

"True" love involves sex, commitment and intimacy. But you have to understand that commitment does not necessarily mean not making sex with other ppl than your SO. You can very well swing and still be committed to a single person, staying with her and loving her.

Those kind of relationships are not for everyone. Most ppl can't handle the heat.

 

[Lancelot59]

Those kind of relationships are not for everyone. Most ppl can't handle the heat.

To be honest I think that's a good thing.

 

[Phrak]

English has approximately one work for love. Ancient Greek had more, including philia, eros, agape, storge, and xenia. Apparently we English speakers are not too keen on it.

 

[jackson6612]

Thanks, everyone.

Hi Phrak: English are not too keen on what?

 

[Astronuc]

Thanks, everyone.

Hi Phrak: English are not too keen on what?

I believe Phrak refers to the differentiation of forms of love.

Is sex an integral part of love especially when speaking of love between a man and woman?

Not necessarily. However, some people seem to make it so.

"True" love involves commitment and intimacy.

Sex is about pleasure. It is optional, not necessary to a relationship. It's like the icing on a cake. The icing is sweet, but take it away, one still has the cake.

 

[Mentallic]

You know when you haven't seen a friend or family member for so long that you hug them much tighter? Well sometimes hugging or kissing my spouse more isn't enough to satisfy my longing for her. Sex seems to do the trick.

 

[DanP]

I believe Phrak refers to the differentiation of forms of love.

Not necessarily. However, some people seem to make it so.

"True" love involves commitment and intimacy.

"True" love requires sex. Whit coommitment and intimacy you just have a form of a close social relationship called by some "Companionate love" , and found sometimes in married couples for which passion is long gone but they are still together.

Sex is about pleasure. It is optional, not necessary to a relationship. It's like the icing on a cake. The icing is sweet, but take it away, one still has the cake.

Yes, a friendship.

 

[Astronuc]

"True" love requires sex. With coommitment and intimacy you just have a form of a close social relationship called by some "Companionate love" , and found sometimes in married couples for which passion is long gone but they are still together.

I disagree - based on experience.

 

[DanP]

I disagree - based on experience.

I guess each and every one of us can claim what "true love" means for them, and claim is subjective.

In fact it may not be so subjective, psychologists uses Sternberg;s taxonomy of love, and yor case is simply:

Companionate love: commitment, NO PASSION, intiamcy

"True" love is called consumate love in his taxonomy , and pretty much requires all 3 components, passion , intimacy and commitment.

passion here is defined as the drive which leads to phsysical attraction and sex.

and btw, lack of sex in a relationship doesn't mean that one of the partners doesn't want to get laid, but the other doesn't care.

I don't think we need to water down love to various forms of friendship and claim that true love with no physical passion exists.

 

[Astronuc]

One can have a passionate love without sex.

I define "true love" as that 'love' which is sustained, through bad (adversity) as well as good.

 

[DanP]

One can have a passionate love without sex.

Yes, you can I agree, in the following case: you want her, and she doesn't give herself to you.
The bottom line is, in this case you both have a different kind of love for each other, and that sucks :P

I define "true love" as that 'love' which is sustained, through bad (adversity) as well as good.

I see it a very incomplete description, since it only tests commitment. What about the other components ? Commitment alone is nothing. It's empty love, devoid of any form of passion and intimacy. You are way better off on separate ways IMO.

 

[Astronuc]

Yes, you can I agree, in the following case: you want her, and she doesn't give herself to you.
The bottom line is, in this case you both have a different kind of love for each other, and that sucks :P

I think one is confusing desire or craving for passion.

Passion can be manifest in a profound affection and appreciation for the other, which is even more powerful when those feelings are mutual. It has nothing to do with craving, desiring or wanting the other.

I see it a very incomplete description, since it only tests commitment. What about the other components ? Commitment alone is nothing. It's empty love, devoid of any form of passion and intimacy. You are way better off on separate ways IMO.

Commitment, passion, intimacy are simply different aspects of the love for another - just like red, orange, yellow, green, blue and violet are different colors (aspects) of light.

 

[rhody]

Dan, Astro,

I can't wait to see where this goes when DaveC, Danger, JimmySnyder see this, I am going to sit back and watch, have at it guys, hehe...

Rhody...

Oh, yeah, and Evo and LisaB and Monique too... have at it girls/guys...

 

[DanP]

I think is confusing desire or craving for passion.

Passion can be manifest in a profound affection and appreciation for the other, which is even more powerful when those feelings are mutual. It has nothing to do with craving, desiring or wanting the other.
.

Actually, most psychologysts would define passion when it comes to close social relationships as the:

"Drive that leads to romance, physical attraction and sex."

It is a widely accepted definition in psychological "sciences", so I see no need to change it, or why we should uses subjective perceptions.

Affection and appreciation are aspects of intimacy, rather then passion. I have affection for my friends. I have appreciation for them. Does that mean I love them ? Nope. It's called "liking", the basis of friendship.

 

[DaveC426913]

1] Would someone care to define for me the definition of "true love" as distinct from "love"?

It sounds like a schoolyard attempt at "Oh, you're talking about 'just' love - that's worthless. I mean real love".


2] Sex is not a required part of love. As DanP (unintentionally) points out, would someone suggest older couples who no longer engage in it have stopped loving each other? Don't be silly.

 

[Astronuc]

A good discussion in the intro here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love

Definition of passion
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/passion?show=0&t=1292772197

I'll go with - a : ardent affection : love b : a strong liking or desire for or devotion to some activity, object, or concept

Actually I prefer an abiding affection and appreciation - but not overwhelming.


Feelings are subjective.

 

[jackson6612]

If sex is not an integral part of love, then I would say one shouldn't have too much of a problem with the swinging. But the problem is the sense of possessiveness is part of a human's almost every activity and feeling. Please guide me.

 

[DanP]

1]2] Sex is not a required part of love. As DanP (unintentionally) points out, would someone suggest older couples who no longer engage in it have stopped loving each other? Don't be silly.

Actually, this is why we invented Viagra :P then again, I must point out to you that inability to perform doesn't necessarily mean lack of sexual desire, hence passion. The drama, when you want to doit and you can't anymore :P

Your example is flawed, Dave. Even if they can do sex and decide not to have sex anymore, therefore stripping passion of their lives, the type of social relation they are involved in changes. It's called "companionate love", pretty different by a consummat love, and which is basically nothing more than two old friends commited to stay together till one goes into the cold Earth :P

Like it or not, the psychology of the relation changes when sex disappears.

And yes, sex is required for the type of close social we term "true" love.

 

[DanP]

If sex is not an integral part of love, then I would say one shouldn't have too much of a problem with the swinging. But the problem is the sense of possessiveness is part of a human's almost every activity and feeling. Please guide me.

None can guide you with that. Live and experiment and see what works for you. Dont let the morale of any 3rd party "guide" you on how to report yourself to the sexual world and to your intimate relationships. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Phrak]

Thanks, everyone.

Hi Phrak: English are not too keen on what?

To add to Astronuc's comment, the Inuit's of the arctic regions of Canada have 13 or 30 names for snow and ice--or so the rumor goes. I believe the variety of descriptive words, in common usage, in talk about a subject freely exchanged is indicative of the degree of concern over any given subject. From this, I conclude that us English speakers put love low on the list of interests. Your question is confusing; What sort of ice?

 

[Lancelot59]

Love is just natures way of tricking you into reproducing, so by that I'd have to say sex is a part of love. However it doesn't tie into having a relationship with someone.

 

[OceanWanderer]

Is sex an integral part of love especially when speaking of love between a man and woman? The other day I was thing that how could a couple say they love each despite being swingers? Perhaps, it varies from one individual to another but 'possessiveness' is an important part of love and I think it has something to so with sex. Probably, that possessiveness streak entwines love and sex in the same thread.

Please note that I intend offense to none and not saying that a swinger couldn't be a true lover.

Interesting question. My answer is "sex is absolutely not an integral part of love."

Sex cannot be an integral part of love because there are so many examples of the separation of sex and love. Take prostitution for instance. There, you have people having sex for money and for fun. Neither loves each other. The john may even have a wife and family and might just be out to have a little sex without love, while still deeply loving his wife.

Swingers... another great example you have pointed out yourself.

I think what's got you confused is that you are looking only at your own emotions. I would tend to guess that you feel a sexual possessiveness toward someone and wouldn't want to see anyone else with that someone. This is fine and healthy, but many people can separate sex from love and have very good marriages and relationships.

They are definitely not one in the same, or a prostitute would fall in love with every customer.

 

[Astronuc]

Like it or not, the psychology of the relation changes when sex disappears.

And yes, sex is required for the type of close social we term "true" love.

Nonsense!

 

[DanP]

They are definitely not one in the same, or a prostitute would fall in love with every customer.

This is one of the worst arguments I ever heard. Flawed to the bone. Since 'true" love requires besides physical passion commitment to each other and intimacy. Which one of those do your local prostitutes offer and how much do they charge for it ?

 

[DanP]

Nonsense!

Are you sure ? Maybe go to a social psychology course specializing into intimate relationships ?

Your perspective may change. You know, those things have all pretty accepted definitions in social psychology and are not as subjective as ppl may want them to be. Love, what make intimate relationships tick or break away, are nowadays merely scientific problems, not mysteries.

 

[OceanWanderer]

If sex is not an integral part of love, then I would say one shouldn't have too much of a problem with the swinging. But the problem is the sense of possessiveness is part of a human's almost every activity and feeling. Please guide me.

Some wisdom my wife (who can separate sex from love) gave me:

"You can't analyze an emotion."

You feel the way you feel. You can think about it, but don't try to apply logic to your feelings. Just go with them. The answer to your swinging quandary is right there. All you have to do is allow the feeling to surface. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. Don't logic yourself into something you're not comfortable with.

 

[OceanWanderer]

This is one of the worst arguments I ever heard. Flawed to the bone. Since 'true" love requires besides physical passion commitment to each other and intimacy.

Your post is barely readable. What?

I was stating that love and sex cannot be the same things because if they were, a prostitute would fall in love with every customer (because she is having sex with them).

How is that flawed again?

 

[DanP]

Your post is barely readable. What?

I was stating that love and sex cannot be the same things because if they were, a prostitute would fall in love with every customer (because she is having sex with them).

How is that flawed again?

No, you didnt stated that love and sex are cannot be the same thing. Pay attention to what you write. You wrote "Sex cannot be an integral part of love". There is a significant difference between "same thing" and "part of".

 

[DanP]

Some wisdom my wife (who can separate sex from love) gave me:

"You can't analyze an emotion."

And pooof, she just erased the field of psychology and parts of neurobiology from the face of the earth.

It doesn't ruin the rainbow to know the physics behind it :P Same way, attraction and love won't be ruined for me even if I know for sure it;s just a increase of some neuropeptide in some regions of my brain.

You feel the way you feel. You can think about it, but don't try to apply logic to your feelings. Just go with them. The answer to your swinging quandary is right there. All you have to do is allow the feeling to surface. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. Don't logic yourself into something you're not comfortable with.

Never go with your feelings. This is the worst advice you can give anyone. Analyze with your logic, else you may find that youll go in some deep troubles sooner or later. Use your head.

 

[DaveC426913]

Actually, this is why we invented Viagra :P then again, I must point out to you that inability to perform doesn't necessarily mean lack of sexual desire, hence passion.

The invention and approval of a drug does not force people into types of love.

Your argument is tantamount to "if you choose not to take a pill then you obviously do not really 'love' your spouse."

Your example is flawed, Dave.

It is not flawed, but you are entitled to have a different opinion.

You cannot define for a couple that they musttake Viagra because they still have passion.

Even if they can do sex and decide not to have sex anymore, therefore stripping passion of their lives, the type of social relation they are involved in changes. It's called "companionate love", pretty different by a consummat love, and which is basically nothing more than two old friends commited to stay together till one goes into the cold Earth :P

Do you have references for these definitions of love as distinct from love? Or are these just your own opinions on the matter?

 

[DanP]

I
Do you have references for these definitions of love as distinct from love? Or are these just your own opinions on the matter?

You may want to look into Robert Sternberg's triangular theory of love.

 

[DaveC426913]

Since 'true" love requires besides physical passion commitment to each other and intimacy.

Again, with the "true love" nonsense.

Please define this term as distinct from "love" or stop using it.

 

[DanP]

Again, with the "true love" nonsense.

Please define this term as distinct from "love" or stop using it.

You have been pointed to the relevant material. Read it, it contains the taxonomy of love. It;s Sternberg ( a psych with Oklahoma state uni) work. A simple Google search will doit.

Consummate love, as its referred by many psychologists and "true love" popularely, consists of passion (as leading to sexual desire), intimacy and commitment. I already wrote this in this thread, but it seems you failed to took notice and continued the non-sense , speaking as generally as one can.