Bush: The Greatest Blunder in US History

[Ivan Seeking]

In light of today's report on the alleged Iraqi WMD programs, which we now know never existed after Gulf I, and considering the lack of any significant connection between Iraq and 911, and considering that in spite of Bush's efforts to escape responsibility for his rush to war, and in spite of his efforts to escape responsibility for his decisions and claims made as President of the United States, I think the invasion of Iraq now qualifies as the greatest blunder in foreign policy in US history.

Bush will be remembered in history; exactly as he should be.

 

[omin]

And today we have the technology, communication, databases, videotape, etc, that is empirical representation of the waste that blunder is. But, it will probably take along time for us to see Bush and those Republicans who support him in full codemnattion 20/20 until all that is quantified. Right now, the right-wingers are just not intelligent enough to be ashamed of themselves for what they've encouraged.

 

[graphic7]

The long-awaited CIA report on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs says former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein did not possesses stockpiles of weapons at the time of the U.S. invasion in March 2003 and had not begun any program to produce them.

If you read carefully, you'll notice that the report only investigates whether Saddam possesed WMD stockpiles at the *time* of the U.S invasian in March of 2003. This doesn't investigate whether or not Saddam had a stockpile before this time or not.

This also doesn't exclude the fact that Saddam may have exported his WMD stockpiles before March of 2003.

I'm a Kerry supporter, but you can't be wrong about facts like this.

 

[Loren Booda]

Blaming Bush is like faulting Howdy Doody for Buffalo Bob's indiscretions.

 

[wasteofo2]

What is it with you liberals, trying to undermine the war in Iraq and the President? Do you want the war to fail and Democracy to die? If not, you better stop saying bad things about Bush, how would the troops feel if they heard that people didn't like Bush and that the war was unjustified?

God, liberals, you all hate freedom and want there to be more terrorist attacks on the USA.

 

[Prometheus]

I think the invasion of Iraq now qualifies as the greatest blunder in foreign policy in US history.

I think that you are premature. If god were to come down to Earth and bestow American style democracy on Iraq in the coming months, and if the Iraqis unanimously decided to love the United States for their wonderful assistance in achieving this, then I would consider your statement to be false. Only if Iraq continues as it has been will I agree with you that Iraq is the greatest blunder in US history, far surpassing even the blunder in Vietnam.

 

[Prometheus]

What is it with you liberals, trying to undermine the war in Iraq and the President? Do you want the war to fail and Democracy to die? If not, you better stop saying bad things about Bush, how would the troops feel if they heard that people didn't like Bush and that the war was unjustified?

God, liberals, you all hate freedom and want there to be more terrorist attacks on the USA.

You have a bizarre sense of humor, but it is funny. What is really funny is that there actually are people in this country who would think that your statements are serious and agree with them. Quite humerous, isn't it, and yet sad at the same time.

 

[tumor]

I don't blame Bush for Iraqi fiasco, I blame all of dumb American suckers who were bambozzled into going to war.
Bush did nice job, he needs to be reelected,and then he will **** us all for real.
This country has no right to exist anymore.

 

[wasteofo2]

You have a bizarre sense of humor, but it is funny. What is really funny is that there actually are people in this country who would think that your statements are serious and agree with them. Quite humerous, isn't it, and yet sad at the same time.

Yeah, they're known as people who take Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity seriously.

Rush Limbaugh is on the air from noon-3pm on weekdays, and he's the second most listened to radio program in all of New York City, a very liberal city. Makes you wonder...

 

[Prometheus]

Rush Limbaugh is on the air from noon-3pm on weekdays, and he's the second most listened to radio program in all of New York City, a very liberal city. Makes you wonder...

I agree. People who listen to Limbaugh just to laugh at the hypocritical self-confessed idiot. What people will do for a joke. As to those who actually think his point of view has some merit, ... you are right, it does make me wonder.

 

[check]

So very true... If Bush loses in November I wonder how many Republicans will back away from supporting him... it could happen

 

[wasteofo2]

So very true... If Bush loses in November I wonder how many Republicans will back away from supporting him... it could happen

It won't be how many Republicans back away from supporting him, it'll initially be how many Republicans accuse Democrats of manipulating the vote. If Bush clearly loses, it won't be Republicans backing away from supporting him, it'll be Republicans that never supported him in the first place.

 

[Zantra]

ahh denial.. and I don't mean the river.. Right now people are riding the coat tails... if Bush looses, it will be a very lonely trip back to texas. As far as Iraq, the most common argument I hear in response to Bush being wrong is "well Saddam needed to go anyhow". While that may be true, doing so under the guise of a misconception, after going against so many countries and the UN to do it, is a fool's errand. It's akin to winning a race by tripping everyone else ahead of you along the way, and then going "hah! I would have won anyways". The end never justifies the means.

As far as troop morale- I think if I were a soldier I'd rather know the truth. If I'm going to die for my country, I want the real reasons, not some misleading hype to make me feel better about my sacrifices. It's like finding out Jim Jones put something in the kool aid and not telling his followers because it would be such a huge "downer". However, some people are more comfortable in their own little uptopia where Bush is a perfect leader, and only a victim of circumstance-who am I to take a dump in their wheaties?

*shrug*

 

[Gokul43201]

Ah, a Bush bash-fest ! Bash on !

 

[hanuman]

How to poat a new post

Dear All,
some how I am not able to understand how to punch in a question?
so I am useing this reply mode.
Can anyone guide me?
Hanuman

In light of today's report on the alleged Iraqi WMD programs, which we now know never existed after Gulf I, and considering the lack of any significant connection between Iraq and 911, and considering that in spite of Bush's efforts to escape responsibility for his rush to war, and in spite of his efforts to escape responsibility for his decisions and claims made as President of the United States, I think the invasion of Iraq now qualifies as the greatest blunder in foreign policy in US history.

Bush will be remembered in history; exactly as he should be.

 

[Evo]

hanuman, either do as you did and select "quote" or "post reply" and type your question.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Prometheus]

ahh denial.. and I don't mean the river ...

Nice post.

 

[pelastration]

In light of today's report on the alleged Iraqi WMD programs, which we now know never existed after Gulf I, and considering the lack of any significant connection between Iraq and 911, and considering that in spite of Bush's efforts to escape responsibility for his rush to war, and in spite of his efforts to escape responsibility for his decisions and claims made as President of the United States, I think the invasion of Iraq now qualifies as the greatest blunder in foreign policy in US history.

Bush will be remembered in history; exactly as he should be.

Is "blunder" the correct word? Blunder: to make a mistake through stupidity, ignorance, or carelessness
I think it was a "scam": a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
The Iraq operation was and still is an intentional set-up by PNAC.

 

[russ_watters]

...and getting yourself impeached over a BJ is probably the biggest general Presidential blunder in US history.

As for foreign policy, is Vietnam too general to get the gold on this? Yalu (? North Korea)river?

Somalia was pretty dumb, but I guess death-toll (gross, not net) is what is important.

And you must be a Reagan fan...

 

[Gokul43201]

...and getting yourself impeached over a BJ is probably the biggest general Presidential blunder in US history.

As for foreign policy, is Vietnam too general to get the gold on this? Yalu (? North Korea)river?

Somalia was pretty dumb, but I guess death-toll (gross, not net) is what is important.

And you must be a Reagan fan...

You've got to be a Reagan fan to call this the worst foreign policy screw up. Reagan helped establish more dictators and fundamentalists around the world than your average James Bond baddy with hopes of world domination would care to shake hands with...but I don't want to derail this thread, so let's just stick to the Bush bashing.

(hanuman, were you asking how to start a new thread ? You do that by clicking the "New Thread" icon at the top left in the relevant sub-forum/section.)

 

[physicsuser]

PF better watchout because Bush is comming for your nucular program...

 

[Zantra]

Nice post.

I just call it like i see it..

 

[CJames]

Oh come on. Why is there such a liberal bias in all intelligent conversations. God, you go to a college and look, everybody's a liberal. Talk to a bunch of physicists and there all liberal. Talk to artists and writers and they're all liberal. What's with that? I mean, you all must be so blinded by your intelligence, creativity, and open-mindedness to see what you would have believed if you weren't exposed to them. If there's anything American shouldn't be, it's a place where people can accept other ways of life.

 

[BobG]

There's one key difference between a 'blunder' and an 'unsuccessful' effort. If the worst you get out failure is a bruised ego, it was only an unsuccessful effort. If you failed to plan for the possibility of an unsuccessful effort and that failure leaves you materially worse off than before, it was a blunder.

Viet Nam wound up having a humiliating end. Other than that, the US was not materially affected by what happened in Viet Nam. Same goes for stationing marines in Beirut. Same goes for Somalia. Same would have gone for Bosnia and Kosovo - in fact, success really didn't affect us any more than a failure would have.

The same can't be said for Iraq. Unless there is (or was) a contingency in place to deal with the possibility of the 'Balkanization' of Iraq or total civil war, Iraq was a major blunder.

The only comparable 'blunder' I can think of was the Cuban missile crisis. It was provoked by Kennedy stationing missiles in Turkey. His contingency plan was to remove the missiles, but the crisis came too close to being a disaster to be treated as just a mistake or an unsuccessful effort.

 

[Prometheus]

...and getting yourself impeached over a BJ is probably the biggest general Presidential blunder in US history.

We are talking about the greatest blunder by a president in US history, and you are bringing up the incredibly stupid and self-serving Republican power grab. As horrendous as the Republicans were in this respect, it does not match up to the idiocy of Bush and his actions. Nice try, though.

 

[Artman]

I'm sorry, but I don't see removing a tyrant from a land under sanctions for ten years as the largest blunder in US history.

I'm not saying I agree with the war, but the situation in that country was dire before the war as well. I will reserve judgement on whether or not this was truly a blunder until I see how their political future unfolds and how the rest of the world reacts to the new leadership (lifting of sanctions, rebuilding of infrastructure, humanitarian aid, etc).

 

[LURCH]

In light of today's report on the alleged Iraqi WMD programs, which we now know never existed after Gulf I, and considering the lack of any significant connection between Iraq and 911, and considering that in spite of Bush's efforts to escape responsibility for his rush to war, and in spite of his efforts to escape responsibility for his decisions and claims made as President of the United States, I think the invasion of Iraq now qualifies as the greatest blunder in foreign policy in US history.

Bush will be remembered in history; exactly as he should be.

A report which could not have been written if not for the war. The information needed to reach this conclusion was not available before the war. That's why there was a war; because Saddam would not allow weapons inspections to take place peacefully. So he had to be forced to give up the necessary information. (BTW; I saw the interview with the Director of the CIA regarding this report, and he said that there is no reasonable doubt that Saddam was seeking WMD developement.)

The war was fought because Saddam was not cooperating with weapons inspections. To show that the war was fought under false pretenses, one would have to show that Saddam was cooperating with weapons inspections.

My vote for greatest blunder would be trying to "peacefully negotiate" with Afghanistan's Taliban government. As we sat idly and tried to talk nice to resolve our diffeences, they attacked again and again, until in the end thousands of inocent civilians paid the price for our lack of action. I for one am glad we didn't repeat that mistake, and suffer a Sarin or Mustard-gass (which we now know Iraq did have) attack in downtown LA.

 

[member 5645]

LEt's reinstate saddam, put sanctions back in place, put our bases back in Saudi Arabia, reinstate the no-fly zone... that was all working so great before.
I can't see why we wouldn't want to continue to kill so many Iraqis without holding Saddam accountable, continue to antagonize the saudis with our bases, continue to be fired on by Iraq, and still wonder how long until Saddam develops WMD.

It makes me sick to think of the reality so many of you wish for continuance of.

 

[Prometheus]

It makes me sick to think of the reality so many of you wish for continuance of.

Your words certainly do sound like you are sick. Not only sick, but somewhat delusional. Are you trying to make everyone else sick? It sounds like it.

 

[member 5645]

Your words certainly do sound like you are sick. Not only sick, but somewhat delusional. Are you trying to make everyone else sick? It sounds like it.

That's real cute. Adding more to this forum than you ever did before I see.

The reality of the pre war situation was as I described above for an infinite amount of time, or go in and change it. I disagree with the way things have been done, but I cannot fathom why ANY of you are so hell bent on wanting to keep in place an AWFUL system.

 

[selfAdjoint]

LEt's reinstate saddam, put sanctions back in place, put our bases back in Saudi Arabia, reinstate the no-fly zone... that was all working so great before.
I can't see why we wouldn't want to continue to kill so many Iraqis without holding Saddam accountable, continue to antagonize the saudis with our bases, continue to be fired on by Iraq, and still wonder how long until Saddam develops WMD.

It makes me sick to think of the reality so many of you wish for continuance of.

Nobody's suggesting any of that. The fact is that the Bush administration blew off our allies, spent us from budget balance into overwhelming debt, and attacked a foreign country on false pretenses, which had one good result, overthrow of Saddam, and many bad results, such as that we are now hated by big majorities not only in Islam, but in all the rest of the world too. Not to mention all the thousands of people who have been killed, and the puppet government, and..., and...

 

[Ivan Seeking]

A report which could not have been written if not for the war. The information needed to reach this conclusion was not available before the war. That's why there was a war; because Saddam would not allow weapons inspections to take place peacefully. So he had to be forced to give up the necessary information. (BTW; I saw the interview with the Director of the CIA regarding this report, and he said that there is no reasonable doubt that Saddam was seeking WMD developement.)

There is no reasonable doubt that Saddam had fantasies. So what? Do we start wars over people's imaginations? Apparently so.

By the way, we have a whole new reason for the war - the oil for food program. Its funny how this never came up until now. What will it be tomorrow?

The war was fought because Saddam was not cooperating with weapons inspections. To show that the war was fought under false pretenses, one would have to show that Saddam was cooperating with weapons inspections.

So what you are saying is that Bush did not tell us and the rest of the world that we were attacking Iraq because they were an imminent threat to our National Security?

What you mean is that this was Bush's rationalization to snub the UN and to alienate most of our allies.

 

[member 5645]

Nobody's suggesting any of that. The fact is that the Bush administration blew off our allies, spent us from budget balance into overwhelming debt, and attacked a foreign country on false pretenses, which had one good result, overthrow of Saddam, and many bad results, such as that we are now hated by big majorities not only in Islam, but in all the rest of the world too. Not to mention all the thousands of people who have been killed, and the puppet government, and..., and...

And I can handle that. However, the statement being made from the beginning of this thread harps on the lack of WMD and link between Iraq and 9/11, not the pathetic execution of the war post decision.

And for the little quip at the end ;)...
Thousands killed < Sanction deaths
'puppet government' = interim government (and is standard fare throughout history when putting democracy in place)

 

[member 5645]

1>There is no reasonable doubt that Saddam had fantasies. So what? Do we start wars over people's imaginations? Apparently so.

2>By the way, we have a whole new reason for the war - the oil for food program. Its funny how this never came up until now. What will it be tomorrow?

3>So what you are saying is that Bush did not tell us and the rest of the world that we were attacking Iraq because they were an imminent threat to our National Security?

4>What you mean is that this was Bush's rationalization to snub the UN and to alienate most of our allies.

1>Are you really going to take intent blocked by sanctions down to "fantasies"?? haha, let's stick to reality here.
2> I find nothing humorous about that at all. It's sick and some of the largest part of why I think sanctions are so stupid on a non-democratic country.
3>And you are going to tell me that you knew something Bush, Clinton, France, Germany, Russia, the UN, and John Kerry didn't? Everyone was feeding from the same information bag with a noncompliant Saddam sitting at the other end.
4>...

 

[Ba]

You know, as far as I remember not too long before the war there were weapon inspectors in Iraq, nothing was found, there wasn't anything there no matter how hard they looked. Then Bush and his administration decides that Saddam must have WMDs and be connected with the terror network. Now we look again and WHAT? still nothing and Bush still insists on WMDs. Meanwhile North Korea publicly announced they were creating WMDs at the time and Bush ignored them all together.