Wait, I thought magnetism was nonconservative

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In summary, the work done by a magnetic field is zero. The velocity and position of a particle are not affected by a magnetic field.
  • #1
DivergentSpectrum
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i ran a simulation that calculates the trajectory of a particle in the presence of a magnetic field from maxwells equations.
it also calculates the work (line integral of force) and the kinetic energy gained(kinetic energy at the end of simulation minus kinetic energy at the beginning)
i was pretty surprised to see that the values are the same. i know its not a programming error.
here the magnetic field is constant(maybe that's why?)
B=3,5,10
and there is an electrostatic force.
E=-100[x,y,z]/R^3
(i know these differ by permissivity or permittivity of free space or whatever but it shouldn't matter, besides i get the same result with just a straight magnetic force)
initial conditions x,y,z=[3,1,2] and dx/dt,dy/dt,dz/dt=[1,4,3]
 

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  • #2
To my understanding, a static, constant magnetic field does no work on a charged particle, so there should be no gain of kinetic energy.
 
  • #3
Now this discussion starts again, and I try again: A magnetic field does no work on a particle.

A particle moving in an electromagnetic field obeys the equation of motion (for simplicity I use the non-relativistic expression)
[tex]m \ddot{x}=\vec{F}(t,\vec{x},\vec{v})=q \left (\vec{E}+\frac{\vec{v}}{c} \times \vec{B} \right ).[/tex]
The work done is
[tex]\frac{m}{2} [\vec{v}^2(t_2)-\vec{v}^2(t_1)] = \int_{t_1}^{t_2} \mathrm{d} t \; \vec{v}(t) \cdot \vec{F}[t,\vec{x}(t),\vec{v}(t)]=\int_{t_1}^{t_2} \mathrm{d} t \; q \vec{v}(t) \cdot \vec{E}[t,\vec{x}(t)] .[/tex]
Here, [itex]\vec{x}(t)[/itex] is the trajectory of the particle, i.e., a solution to the equation of motion. Then it doesn't matter, whether the force is conservative or not. It's only conservative, if the electric field is static, and the magnetic field never contributes to the work done (no matter whether the magnetic field is stationary or not or whether it's homogeneous or not).
 
  • #4
ahh ok that makes sense the force is perpendicular to velocity so all the work is done by the electrostatic force.
What about other conserved quantities? ie angular momentum
 
  • #5
bluntwcrackrap said:
it also calculates the work (line integral of force) and the kinetic energy gained(kinetic energy at the end of simulation minus kinetic energy at the beginning)
i was pretty surprised to see that the values are the same
These quantities are guaranteed to be the same, even for a nonconservative force like friction. The only requirement is that the object must be rigid.

The proof is called the work energy theorem.
 
  • #6
i did some research and realized the integral of torque (position cross force) equals the change in angular momentum. its really kinda interesting when you think about it.
b
∫Force[itex]\bullet[/itex]Velocity *dt=kinetic energy gained from a to b.
a

and
b
∫Position[itex]\times[/itex]Force *dt=angular momentum gained from a to b
a

It makes me wonder what if you try crossing force and velocity?
or doing the dot product of position and force?
Do these have physical meanings also?

(sorry if I am being annoying with all the weird questions)
 

FAQ: Wait, I thought magnetism was nonconservative

1. What is nonconservative magnetism?

Nonconservative magnetism refers to magnetic forces that do not conserve mechanical energy. This means that the work done by the magnetic force on a moving object is not equal to the change in the object's kinetic energy.

2. How is nonconservative magnetism different from conservative magnetism?

Conservative magnetism refers to magnetic forces that do conserve mechanical energy. This means that the work done by the magnetic force on a moving object is equal to the change in the object's kinetic energy.

3. Why is it important to understand nonconservative magnetism?

Understanding nonconservative magnetism is important because it allows us to accurately predict the motion of charged particles in magnetic fields. It also helps us to understand the relationship between magnetic fields and energy.

4. Can nonconservative magnetism be observed in everyday life?

Yes, nonconservative magnetism can be observed in everyday life. For example, when a charged particle moves through a changing magnetic field, it may experience a nonconservative magnetic force that causes it to lose or gain energy.

5. How does nonconservative magnetism impact the design of technology?

Nonconservative magnetism plays a crucial role in the design of technology, especially in devices that use magnetic fields to generate electricity, such as generators and motors. Understanding nonconservative magnetism helps engineers to optimize the efficiency and performance of these devices.

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