Obama compromises with the GOP for extending the tax cuts

[Topher925]

Obama "compromises" with the GOP for extending the tax cuts

With fellow Democrats balking, President Barack Obama declared Tuesday that a compromise with Republicans on tax cuts was necessary to help the economy and protect recession-weary Americans. He passionately defended his record against Democrats who complain he's breaking campaign promises.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101207/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama

I'm interested in what other peoples thoughts are on this. I see it has a unfortunate but smart move. In order to pass future legislation for the next 2 years this had to be done and now the GOP can no longer say Obama is anti-republican in blindly rejecting their ideas and legislation.

On a side note, I'm really getting sick of the GOP playing their stupid games. Their job is to govern the country to the best of their ability, not throw a hissy-fit and refuse not to do anything until they get their way. They're all a bunch of middle aged children if you ask me.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101207/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama

I'm interested in what other peoples thoughts are on this. I see it has a unfortunate but smart move. In order to pass future legislation for the next 2 years this had to be done and now the GOP can no longer say Obama is anti-republican in blindly rejecting their ideas and legislation.

On a side note, I'm really getting sick of the GOP playing their stupid games. Their job is to govern the country to the best of their ability, not throw a hissy-fit and refuse not to do anything until they get their way. They're all a bunch of middle aged children if you ask me.

He wasn't going to get a better deal once the newly elected Republicans take office. He had no choice.

Imo, just more of the same: Obama doing what he has to in order to get the best results possible. So far he has done almost exactly what I elected him to do. The fact that nobody's happy, and that the positions of those complaining are highly polarized, tells me that he's doing the right thing. Obama is the only centrist in Washington.

Where is all of the outrage [from "conservatives"] that the Reps are forcing us to borrow 600 Billion to keep tax breaks for America's wealthiest? I thought the big concern was the deficit? I guess not today.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

2 million people were about to lose their unemployment insurance. What choice did Obama have given 9.8% unemployment?

 

[drankin]

I would have been shocked if Obama did not endorse the extension. Now I'm simply surprised and glad that he did so. He seems to be learning to make most people happy all the time. He is being a "conservative" when he needs to be. Can't ask much more from a Dem prez.

 

[turbo]

2 million people were about to lose their unemployment insurance. What choice did Obama have given 9.8% unemployment?

And what happens in a few months when he'll need Republican votes to raise the debt limit? How much more blackmail will we be subjected to? The Senate should abolish the filibuster and return to majority rule ASAP.

 

[WhoWee]

Obama is the only centrist in Washington.

Care to support this - sounds like a statement of fact - not an opinion?

 

[WhoWee]

2 million people were about to lose their unemployment insurance. What choice did Obama have given 9.8% unemployment?

It's a tough spot - especially heading into the holidays.

 

[WhoWee]

And what happens in a few months when he'll need Republican votes to raise the debt limit? How much more blackmail will we be subjected to? The Senate should abolish the filibuster and return to majority rule ASAP.

Why should the debt limit be raised? If your personal plan was to never have enough money to pay your bills - would you promise to pay bills for overspending relatives (states like CA) and mandate that all of your relatives spend money they don't want to (Medicaid expansion) then go ask your bank or credit card company to increase your line of credit - or would you learn to live within your means?

 

[Topher925]

He wasn't going to get a better deal once the newly elected Republicans take office. He had no choice.

Imo, just more of the same: Obama doing what he has to in order to get the best results possible. So far he has done almost exactly what I elected him to do. The fact that nobody's happy, and that the positions of those complaining are highly polarized, tells me that he's doing the right thing. Obama is the only centrist in Washington.

Where is all of the outrage [from "conservatives"] that the Reps are forcing us to borrow 600 Billion to keep tax breaks for America's wealthiest? I thought the big concern was the deficit? I guess not today.

I agree 100%, Ivan. The big concern of the deficit won't come up again until 2012 when the GOP tries to use it as an argument piece to slam Obama's campaign by blaming that 600 Billion dollar increase on him.

 

[turbo]

Why should the debt limit be raised? If your personal plan was to never have enough money to pay your bills - would you promise to pay bills for overspending relatives (states like CA) and mandate that all of your relatives spend money they don't want to (Medicaid expansion) then go ask your bank or credit card company to increase your line of credit - or would you learn to live within your means?

My personal finances are in impeccable shape. I haven't owed anybody any money since our old house's mortgage was paid off decades ago. Unfortunately, we have a congress that is addicted to deficit spending, and if the debt limit is not raised, programs will not be funded. Especially programs that are hated by the GOP. Tax cuts for the rich will be protected, since the GOP won't pay for them. Extended unemployment benefits for millions of at-risk families? Not so much. The GOP will throw them under the bus and de-fund health care reform and market re-regulation. Just wait and watch.

 

[nismaratwork]

He wasn't going to get a better deal once the newly elected Republicans take office. He had no choice.

Imo, just more of the same: Obama doing what he has to in order to get the best results possible. So far he has done almost exactly what I elected him to do. The fact that nobody's happy, and that the positions of those complaining are highly polarized, tells me that he's doing the right thing. Obama is the only centrist in Washington.

Where is all of the outrage [from "conservatives"] that the Reps are forcing us to borrow 600 Billion to keep tax breaks for America's wealthiest? I thought the big concern was the deficit? I guess not today.

I agree, especially with the bolded portion. He's the president, but the democratic legislature is so incompetent and divided that he'd be mad to expect a better outcome in the future. People are saying he caved, which he did, but he caved because of his own party's inability to deal with towering intellects like Hannity, Beck, and O'Rielly... :yuck:

 

[WhoWee]

I agree 100%, Ivan. The big concern of the deficit won't come up again until 2012 when the GOP tries to use it as an argument piece to slam Obama's campaign by blaming that 600 Billion dollar increase on him.

Why would anyone need to blame Obama for anything other than his failed stimulus - remember the nearly $1 Trillion in shovel ready spending that would contain unemployment at 8%? I can post support if you like.

Something else about todays announcement - perhaps Obama agrees with Pelosi that unemployment insurance creates jobs?

 

[turbo]

Why would anyone need to blame Obama for anything other than his failed stimulus - remember the nearly $1 Trillion in shovel ready spending that would contain unemployment at 8%? I can post support if you like.

The failed stimulus started a bit before Obama was elected and took office. If you want to absolve W, you'll need to be very creative.

 

[WhoWee]

My personal finances are in impeccable shape. I haven't owed anybody any money since our old house's mortgage was paid off decades ago. Unfortunately, we have a congress that is addicted to deficit spending, and if the debt limit is not raised, programs will not be funded. Especially programs that are hated by the GOP. Tax cuts for the rich will be protected, since the GOP won't pay for them. Extended unemployment benefits for millions of at-risk families? Not so much. The GOP will throw them under the bus and de-fund health care reform and market re-regulation. Just wait and watch.

I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that your personal finances are in order Turbo (I would trust you with my car/house keys). My point is you would never run your personal finances the way Congress runs our country.

One of my pet peeves is food stamps - not that we feed people - but as the single largest consumer of food - why don't we have any buying power?

On one hand, we provide farm subsidies including payments to farmers not to produce. On the other hand (food stamp) beneficiaries can use their cards to buy anything they want at a grocery store - including the processed/packaged foods that are the least healthy, least nutritious, and most expensive. When we feed needy people in Africa - what do they receive? Is there any incentive for beneficiaries to get off of food stamps?

 

[Gokul43201]

He seems to be learning to make most people happy all the time.

Actually, I don't think that's true. Seems to me like every time he leans a little to the right, he pisses off his liberal base, and every time he blinks he pisses off the right.

 

[turbo]

One of my pet peeves is food stamps - not that we feed people - but as the single largest consumer of food - why don't we have any buying power?

On one hand, we provide farm subsidies including payments to farmers not to produce. On the other hand (food stamp) beneficiaries can use their cards to buy anything they want at a grocery store - including the processed/packaged foods that are the least healthy, least nutritious, and most expensive. When we feed needy people in Africa - what do they receive? Is there any incentive for beneficiaries to get off of food stamps?

Incentives such as fair pay and benefits? Our Tea-Party governor-elect rails against food-stamps, medicaid, housing assistance, heating assistance, etc as "welfare". Guess what? The company that he heads hires lots of people, but pays them sub-standard wages for part-time jobs with NO benefits. Not even unemployment insurance, so the workers are constantly in fear of their jobs. His business-plan relies on the very same "welfare" programs that he demonizes. What a creep.

 

[Gokul43201]

I would have been shocked if Obama did not endorse the extension. Now I'm simply surprised and glad that he did so.

Were you zapped by the payroll tax cut? I was!

http://www.cnbc.com/id/40550362/

 

[WhoWee]

The failed stimulus started a bit before Obama was elected and took office. If you want to absolve W, you'll need to be very creative.

You want to blame the Stimulus on Bush?

Do you think Bush set up this cool website?
http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/default.aspx

I checked my area - a total of 5 grants for some road work cumulative $1,033,000 over 5 years. That should keep 3 to 5 guys working on and off?

 

[russ_watters]

Obama is the only centrist in Washington.

Lol, Ivan, you almost had me believing you were serious with that! :rofl:

You of course know that he was among the most liberal senators all three years he was in the Senate - we discussed it during the campaign. And his policies so far have included a veritable liberal adjenda checklist, starting with that one big thing that liberals have wanted for 80 years but couldn't get because the country has never elected enough liberals to Washington for the liberals to pass it. In one of the worst recessions since the depression and with two ongoing wars, the priority he appears to have spent the most time and energy on wasn't directly related to the economy or the wars. Yeah, he's that liberal.

Obama compromised precisely because the Republicans gave him no other choice. Now that he doesn't have his filibuster-proof majority anymore, he can't http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/...ds-democrats-open-secret-health-reform-talks" with his my-way-or-the-highway attitude. Now he must compromise if he wants anything passed.

Be serious.

 

[russ_watters]

The failed stimulus started a bit before Obama was elected and took office. If you want to absolve W, you'll need to be very creative.

No, actually, turbo-1, the successful stimulus (I wouldn't call it a "stimulus", though) is the one that passed while Bush was in office. The one that according to even democrats saved the economy from collapse while at the same time costing the US taxpayers a tiny fraction of the Obama stimulus (it may yet even turn a profit).

 

[russ_watters]

Were you zapped by the payroll tax cut? I was!

http://www.cnbc.com/id/40550362/

Me too. I didn't know such a thing was on the table and I'm not sure why it was added. Was it just put in as a tax cut that doesn't help the rich, in order to preserve some of the inequality Obama wanted?

 

[turbo]

No, actually, turbo-1, the successful stimulus (I wouldn't call it a "stimulus", though) is the one that passed while Bush was in office. The one that according to even democrats saved the economy from collapse while at the same time costing the US taxpayers a tiny fraction of the Obama stimulus (it may yet even turn a profit).

The "stimulus" that magically pulled us out of the GOP depression? 10 years from now we'll still be planning our way out of this one.

 

[WhoWee]

The failed stimulus started a bit before Obama was elected and took office. If you want to absolve W, you'll need to be very creative.

I think you are the one being creative, if you're talking about the Stimulus Plan that Obama has bet his Presidency on?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/08/obamas-stimulus-promise-m_n_212420.html

"President Barack Obama assured the nation his recovery plan was on track Monday, scrambling to calm Americans unnerved by unemployment rates still persistently rising nearly four months after he signed the biggest economic stimulus in history.

Obama admitted his own dissatisfaction with the progress but said his administration would ramp up stimulus spending in the coming months. The White House acknowledged it has spent only $44 billion, or 5 percent, of the $787 billion stimulus, but that total has always been expected to rise sharply this summer.

"Now we're in a position to really accelerate," Obama said.

He also repeated an earlier promise to create or save 600,000 jobs by the end of the summer.

Neither the acceleration nor the jobs goal are new. Both represent a White House repackaging of promises and projects to blunt criticism that the effects haven't been worth the historic price tag. And the job estimate is so murky, it can never be verified."

 

[CAC1001]

The "stimulus" that magically pulled us out of the GOP depression? 10 years from now we'll still be planning our way out of this one.

What "GOP depression?" Congress was controlled by the Democrats for two eyars prior to the recession hitting. And you turbo-1 should be smart enough to know that the economic crisis is too large and complex to be blamed solely on either party.

 

[Proton Soup]

i seem to remember compromise being a successful strategy for Clinton.

 

[WhoWee]

The "stimulus" that magically pulled us out of the GOP depression? 10 years from now we'll still be planning our way out of this one.

Let's go back to recovery.gov - the site that tracks President Obama's Stimulus Spending
http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/default.aspx

They have an "Overview of Funding" section.
"Overview of Funding
The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 distributes the $787 billion as follows:

Category Funds Made Available Funds Paid Out Total Recovery Act Funds
Tax Benefits ......$0B $243.4B $288B
Contracts, Grants, Loans ..$275B $161.9B $275B
Entitlements ......$181.2B $171.9B $224B
91% of funds, excluding tax benefits, have been made available.

As of: 11/27/2010"

Now let's take a closer look. The $243.4Billion spent on tax cuts (to 95% of taxpayers) in the form of a few dollars left in everyones paycheck - has not held unemployment to 8% as promised - it's now 9.8%.

The "Shovel Ready" spending (I assume) falls into the "Contracts, Grants and Loans(?)" category - and has been exceeded by "Entitlements" spending?

Perhaps the "Shovel Ready" term didn't actually have anything to do with construction?

It appears to me that tax cuts (in the form of a few extra dollars per week in a workers pocket) do not create jobs (unemployment has gone up). Businesses and business owners create jobs. People hired to work in businesses take their wages and stimulate the economy - their tax withholdings fund the Government (unless you give back their Social Security withholdings via Earned Income Tax Credit and they make less than $50,000 per year/family of 4). I think it's fair to add the proposed extension of unemployment benefits to the "Entitlements" tally of this illustration.


Does anyone else have a different analysis of these results? It seems to me that giving tax breaks to 95% (everyone except the top 5%) of taxpayers doesn't create many jobs.

I wonder what the effect would be if only the top 5% maintained the current tax rates and everyone elses tax rates (the 95% who don't pay much now) went up just 2% and for people who don't work at all - a reduction of benefits of 2% - can anyone make those calculations?

 

[Gokul43201]

You of course know that he was among the most liberal senators all three years he was in the Senate - we discussed it during the campaign.

That is was discussed doesn't make it true, or relevant to what he's been as a President.

And his policies so far have included a veritable liberal adjenda checklist, starting with that one big thing that liberals have wanted for 80 years but couldn't get because the country has never elected enough liberals to Washington for the liberals to pass it.

Anything can be made to look like a veritable <add fringe identifier here> agenda checklist, if you cherry-pick the entries that make the list.

In one of the worst recessions since the depression and with two ongoing wars, the priority he appears to have spent the most time and energy on wasn't directly related to the economy or the wars. Yeah, he's that liberal.

The second sentence doesn't follow from the first.

Alternatively ... in a period of historically high unemployment and in the middle of two wars, Republicans ran campaigns on issues that have absolutely nothing related to either. Yeah, they're that <add unrelated fringe identifier here>.

Obama compromised precisely because the Republicans gave him no other choice. Now that he doesn't have his filibuster-proof majority anymore, he can't http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/...ds-democrats-open-secret-health-reform-talks" with his my-way-or-the-highway attitude. Now he must compromise if he wants anything passed.

Obama hasn't had a filibuster-proof majority since a year ago.

Be serious.

+1

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Obama hasn't had a filibuster-proof majority since a year ago.

As I recall, he never did. He had the two Independents to deal with. Recall that Lieberman was responsible for killing Universal Health Care. He also had the blue-dog Democrats [e.g. Webb] to provide balance within the Democratic party. This meant compromise was needed among Dems without ever considering the GOP.

It was also critical at one point that he get Olympia Snowe [R] on board [after Kennedy died, I think].

 

[WhoWee]

As I recall, he never did. He had the two Independents to deal with. Recall that Lieberman was responsible for killing Universal Health Care. He also had the blue-dog Democrats [e.g. Webb] to provide balance within the Democratic party. This meant compromise was needed among Dems without ever considering the GOP.

It was also critical at one point that he get Olympia Snowe [R] on board [after Kennedy died, I think].

Aren't we splitting hairs? Obama had no problem pushing through his legislative agenda - until the public found out what was going on - as I recall - do you remember the health care town hall meetings?

 

[turbo]

As I recall, he never did. He had the two Independents to deal with. Recall that Lieberman was responsible for killing Universal Health Care. He also had the blue-dog Democrats [e.g. Webb] to provide balance within the Democratic party. This meant compromise was needed among Dems without ever considering the GOP.

It was also critical at one point that he get Olympia Snowe [R] on board [after Kennedy died, I think].

True. And Snowe got on board only to get the health-care reform bill out of committee without a public option. Maine is a very poor state and we feel the effects of economic woes long before most and long after, as well. We certainly could have benefited from a public option, since many jobs here are seasonal, with NO benefits. Snowe didn't serve her state - she did the bidding of the GOP's puppet-handlers. Susan Collins is not a bit better. She touts her upbringing in rural Aroostook county, while serving the wealthy and powerful. The last decent senators we had were Mitchell and Cohen. Now we have party-line hacks.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Aren't we splitting hairs? Obama had no problem pushing through his legislative agenda - until the public found out what was going on - as I recall - do you remember the health care town hall meetings?

The town hall meetings occurred long before the vote and were driven by media [hate radio, Fox, et al] hype and bluster. Obama was smart to start the debate early so that Fox had the summer to blow itself out. Of course, the disinformation campaign wasn't a complete failure as many Americans still think Obama wants to kill grandma.

If you call stating the facts, splitting hairs, so be it.

 

[WhoWee]

The town hall meetings occurred long before the vote and were driven by media [hate radio, Fox, et al] hype and bluster. Obama was smart to start the debate early so that Fox had the summer to blow itself out. Of course, the disinformation campaign wasn't a complete failure as many Americans still think Obama wants to kill grandma.

If you call stating the facts, splitting hairs, so be it.

What? Obama wants to kill grandma?:uhh:

I'll give you credit for trying - but when legislation is rammed through the way Obama, Reid, and Pelosi did it - I don't think anyone's going to be sympathetic to his 1 or 2 votes challenge.

 

[Gokul43201]

What? Obama wants to kill grandma?:uhh:

Yeah, I'm sure you've never heard that before.

I'll give you credit for trying - but when legislation is rammed through the way Obama, Reid, and Pelosi did it...

So how much time do you think should be spent on debating and revising a bill for its final passage?

 

[WhoWee]

So how much time do you think should be spent on debating and revising a bill for its final passage?

I'd be happy at this point if they'd agree to actually read the legislation before they vote - how long does that take?

 

[Gokul43201]

I don't know how long it should take, but I would hope a few months ought to do. Of course, I don't insist that every Congressperson actually read every paragraph of legislation that goes through them. I imagine legislative aides make that process a lot more streamlined.

The initial versions of the bill were written up in July 2009. Nearly four months later, the House passed its version of the bill. And another two months later, the Senate passed their version. The final version (very similar the the Senate version) passed the House three months after that, in the end of March 2010.