Looking for a physics explanation of this observation

In summary: If you open the bottle in the freezer, the pressure will equalize to atm pressure because air from the fridge will enter the bottle (hence increasing the density inside the bottle). Doesn't matter how slow or fast you do it, as long as the temp of the air in the bottle doesn't drop too much.
  • #1
LennoxLewis
129
1
I have cola-bottle (1.5L) that is half-filled with water. The other half was air, of course. I put it in the fridge (~ -14 C) and after about an hour, before i could see ice formation but when it was very cold nonetheless, i saw that the bottle hull was deformed to the inside, the same way if you smash it (the Dutch for it is a "deuk", don't know how to translate that, "indentation"?).

So, the pressure inside has become smaller than the pressure outside. According to the gas law, the pressure should drop as the temperature goes down and the volume remains constant. But the temperature of the air around it was -14 degrees Celsius, so that pressure would have been smaller also.

Can anyone explain this "indentation" ?
 
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  • #2
LennoxLewis said:
But the temperature of the air around it was -14 degrees Celsius

Yes, but the temperature of the air IN the bottle was NOT at -14 °C. So the initial conditions were:

Pbottle = Pfridge = Patm

Tbottle = 20°C (or whatever is the ambient temperature)
Tfridge = -14°C

Then the temperature of the air in the bottle finally goes down to -14°C, and so the pressure goes down too. The difference between the outside and inside pressure created that force that the bottle couldn't handle.
 
  • #3
The pressure in the fridge is NOT smaller. The fridge is not perfectly sealed. It is open to the atmosphere, and therefore it is at atmospheric pressure.
 
  • #4
Lsos said:
The pressure in the fridge is NOT smaller. The fridge is not perfectly sealed. It is open to the atmosphere, and therefore it is at atmospheric pressure.

That' what I said: Pbottle = Pfridge = Patm

But the temperature of the air in the bottle is higher than the temperature in the fridge.

When the air inside the bottle cools down, the pressure INSIDE the bottle decreases. The pressure in the fridge remains the same, i.e. the atmospheric pressure.

There is a vacuum formed inside the bottle, hence "pulling" the bottle in.
 
  • #5
I know, but I'm not sure the OP does (who my response was aimed at). You appear to have agreed with his claim that "pressure would have been smaller also." while simultaneously saying that Pbottle = Pfridge = Patm. I just wanted to clear it up.
 
  • #6
Thanks guys, that explains it well.

One more thing: since the frigde is at lower temperature, is the particle density (N/V) higher than say, in the kitchen? I'm asking because if you look at PV = NRT, and you decrease T but P remains constant, something's got to give..
 
  • #7
Yes the air in the fridge is denser than in the kitchen. It's why warm air rises and cold air drops...
 
  • #8
Lsos said:
Yes the air in the fridge is denser than in the kitchen. It's why warm air rises and cold air drops...

Turning this around, do you think it's possible to leave the bottle opened in the freezer for a while, then opening the freezer and quickly fastening the lid, in a hope to capture the denser, at atm. pressure, -14 degrees Celsius air? Now if one leaves this bottle at RT, the bottle should become very hard or even explode, right?

Do you think this will work in practice, or will the air density of the freezer drop relatively quick when opening the door?
 
  • #9
LennoxLewis said:
Turning this around, do you think it's possible to leave the bottle opened in the freezer for a while, then opening the freezer and quickly fastening the lid, in a hope to capture the denser, at atm. pressure, -14 degrees Celsius air? Now if one leaves this bottle at RT, the bottle should become very hard or even explode, right?

Do you think this will work in practice, or will the air density of the freezer drop relatively quick when opening the door?

If you open the bottle in the freezer, the pressure will equalize to atm pressure because air from the fridge will enter the bottle (hence increasing the density inside the bottle). Doesn't matter how slow or fast you do it, as long as the temp of the air in the bottle doesn't drop too much.

And when you're going to take it out, let it warm up to RT, yes the pressure will increase inside the bottle.

Air density in the fridge has nothing to do with it.
 

1. What is the observed phenomenon that you are trying to explain?

The first step in looking for a physics explanation is to clearly define the observation. This could be anything from describing the motion of an object to explaining the behavior of a system. It is important to have a clear understanding of what you are trying to explain before delving into the physics behind it.

2. What are the relevant physical principles that may be involved in this observation?

Physics is a vast field with many different principles and laws. When trying to explain an observation, it is important to consider all the relevant physical principles that may play a role. This could include concepts like Newton's laws of motion, thermodynamics, or electromagnetism.

3. What are the possible causes or factors that could be influencing this observation?

In order to fully understand and explain an observation, it is important to consider all the possible causes or factors that could be influencing it. This could include external forces, environmental conditions, or even human error. It is important to consider all possibilities before coming to a conclusion.

4. How can you use physics to analyze and interpret the data from this observation?

Physics allows us to use mathematical equations and models to analyze and interpret data from observations. By applying the relevant physical principles and equations, we can gain a better understanding of the underlying physics behind the observation. This can also help us make predictions and test our explanations.

5. What experiments or tests can be conducted to support or refute your physics-based explanation?

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