Perpetual Motion - A Magnetic Machine for Endless Energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of perpetual motion machines, specifically those utilizing magnets, and whether they can provide a continuous supply of energy. Participants explore various ideas, designs, and theoretical implications related to the feasibility of such machines.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims to have found a method for a perpetual motion machine using magnets, questioning its viability.
  • Another participant humorously suggests that the original poster could become wealthy if their idea works.
  • Concerns are raised about the limitations of magnets, with one participant noting that magnets lose their charge over time, questioning the sustainability of the proposed device.
  • A participant argues that superconductors could maintain magnetic properties indefinitely, presenting a design involving a gear and elastic bands but acknowledges the impossibility of true perpetual motion.
  • Questions are posed regarding the existence of room-temperature superconductors and the properties that would allow them to maintain magnetic fields perpetually.
  • Friction is identified as a significant challenge for any proposed perpetual motion device, with various forms of friction discussed, including air and internal friction in materials.
  • Some participants reference existing claims of perpetual motion machines, including the MEG project and Joseph Newman, while others express skepticism about their validity.
  • Humorous remarks about perpetual motion are made, including a quip about a beer can being a perpetual motion machine.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on the feasibility of perpetual motion machines. Some support the idea while others challenge the underlying principles and practical limitations.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss various assumptions about magnetic properties, the nature of superconductors, and the impact of friction, but these assumptions remain unresolved and are subject to differing interpretations.

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I BELIEVE I MAY HAVE FOUND A WAY TO PROVIDE A CONTINIOUS SUPPLY OF ENERGY FROM A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE THAT USES MAGNETS. COULD IT WORK?
 
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Boy did you goof up. You've gone and let the cat out of the bag! Shoulda kept quite and just made one. You will be a billionaire in total contorl of the worlds energy supply.

We are waiting.~^
 
I HAVE OTHER IDEAS...
 
Hurry up and give us ur 'proposed' design so that we can test it for you.
 
Re-edited, I apologize for the previous version

IN answer to Andy “Hurry up and give us ur 'proposed' design so that we can test it for you."

I don't have much in the way of diagrams.
 
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I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the caps lock key on your keyboard is broken.
 
Originally posted by master_coda
I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the caps lock key on your keyboard is broken.
...Really...
 
Oh my GOD! amazing its fixed!
 
The caps key?
btw: is it tested?
 
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  • #10
From just interacting with Earth's magnetic field, magnets will loose their charge slowly, Alnico magnets will lose their charge at a rate of .2%-2% a year as stated by most of their manufacturers. When magnets interact with other magnets, the loss of magnetic charge becomes even greater in a short amount of time. So your device might be able to run itself and create excess energy for a certain amount of time, but unless you find some way to maintain their magnetic charges indefinately, it won't be "perpetual motion", since it won't last forever.
 
  • #11
Well actually superconductors have no resistance against electrical current and magnetisum, so a superconductor will keep magnetic FOREVER! I have made a sketch of a perpetual motion device, I know there can't be one, but I'm stumped on how it can't work.
 
  • #12
Originally posted by Mk
Well actually superconductors have no resistance against electrical current and magnetisum, so a superconductor will keep magnetic FOREVER! I have made a sketch of a perpetual motion device, I know there can't be one, but I'm stumped on how it can't work.

Can superconductors even exist at normal temperatures?

And how does not having a resistance against magnetism mean that it will stay magnetic forever? Can you cite something affirming this?

What's your idea for perpetual motion? Different ideas don't work for different reasons.
 
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  • #13
Originally posted by wasteofo2
Can superconductors even exist at normal temperatures?

And how does not having a resistance against magnetism mean that it will stay magnetic forever? Can you cite something affirming this?

What's your idea for perpetual motion? Different ideas don't work for different reasons.

Well scientists have not found any superconductors that exist at room temperature. The highest they've found is like 20˚F above liquid nitrogen.

Well I didn't know how to word it but I'm pretty sure that it keeps it's magnetic field perpetually. Well it is basically a large gear with a weight wedged between two of the teeth, and the weight is attached to two elastic bands on each side. The elastics are attached to a tower on each side of the gear, the gear is suspended by the magnetic field of a superconductor under it, using the messiner effect. You give it a spin and when the gear runs out of momentum the elastic bands are in such a way that they will give the gear an extra push, then when the gear runs out of momentum the elastics give it an extra push...
 
  • #14
Originally posted by Mk
Well scientists have not found any superconductors that exist at room temperature. The highest they've found is like 20˚F above liquid nitrogen.

Well I didn't know how to word it but I'm pretty sure that it keeps it's magnetic field perpetually. Well it is basically a large gear with a weight wedged between two of the teeth, and the weight is attached to two elastic bands on each side. The elastics are attached to a tower on each side of the gear, the gear is suspended by the magnetic field of a superconductor under it, using the messiner effect. You give it a spin and when the gear runs out of momentum the elastic bands are in such a way that they will give the gear an extra push, then when the gear runs out of momentum the elastics give it an extra push...

Mmm, and liquid nitrogen isn't magnetic, for you to have some magical superconductor which is magnetic and stays so forever you'd probabally need a solid. I'm not aware of any magnetic liquids, as far as I know only metals can maintain a magnetic charge, and (unless someone made some brilliant discovery which I'm unaware of) metal can not be a liquid at the low temperatures which are needed superconductors to create superconductors. And until you can cite something showing what properties superconductors have that would allow them to never loose their magnetic charges, I will not take that as a true statement.

What is the point of suspending your machine, what forces would there be affecting it on the ground that there wouldn't be affecting it suspended in air? The obvious problem with that machine, and most all perpetual motion devices, is friction. The gear spinning on its axis causes friction, the gear and weight moving causes air friction, the expansion and contraction of the elastic causes friction. Also, eventually your elastic would snap. If you had some magical materials that would never break and had no friction in a total vacuum there's still the problem of internal friction(for lack of a better phrase) in the elastic. As the elastic expands and contracts, it's particles cause friction with each other.
 
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  • #15
The only perpetual motion I have observed recently is the beer can to my mouth.
 
  • #16
Maybe you can check : http://www.josephnewman.com/

I believe he uses magnets in his blackbox. Links to some QT-movies.

He refers always to JAMES CLERK MAXWELL"In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is mechanical energy."

So EM is created by spacetime kinetics.
 
  • #17
Sorry to tell you dude, but there already has been a perpetual motion machine made. Do some research on the MEG prodject.

Oh... And if you were able to make it, the government would either buy it from you, or kill you. There is too much money at stake with something like that.
 
  • #18
Originally posted by pelastration
Maybe you can check : http://www.josephnewman.com/

I believe he uses magnets in his blackbox. Links to some QT-movies.
Yeah, he's the most famous of all the cranks. He's the one IIRC who successfully sued the USPTO to have his patent application reviewed, then refused to turn over the device for testing. [zz)] In any case, you can read about him in "Voodoo Science: The Road from Foolishness to Fraud" by Robert Park if you are interested.
Sorry to tell you dude, but there already has been a perpetual motion machine made. Do some research on the MEG prodject.
Yeah, I know. I built one too. Send me $30 and I'll send you the plans so you can build one of your own.

In any case, I'm not going to pick apart his test setup to find the error (if I had to guess, its power factor), but his conclusion speaks for itself:
Now, the BEST verification to do is to convert the "apparent" power measured in useable power such as : light, heat, mechanical energy (in motors)... and also, of course, to close the loop... This has not yet been done today.
If the device worked as advertised, closing the loop would be a relatively simple thing.
 
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  • #19
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  • #20
Originally posted by Stryker

Oh... And if you were able to make it, the government would either buy it from you, or kill you. There is too much money at stake with something like that.
Yes, I can see how something like Mk's idea for an ever-spinning pinwheel would make trillions of dollars, which the government could never allow. They'd probabally launch him into the sun and use his machine to do all sorts of fun pinwheel related things.
 
  • #21
Do you think that it would be possible to convert the kenetic energy of a photon into mechanical energy?
 
  • #22
Originally posted by Stryker
Do you think that it would be possible to convert the kenetic energy of a photon into mechanical energy?
Yes, its been done (though the energy isn't kinetic).
 
  • #23
The only thing that I know of, (that qualitfies as "perpetual motion") is the Universe, itself, 13.5 Billion years old, and Still Going Strong!
 
  • #24
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
The only thing that I know of, (that qualitfies as "perpetual motion") is the Universe, itself, 13.5 Billion years old, and Still Going Strong!
The Universe will end, though. All things do eventualy...
 
  • #25
Originally posted by russ_watters
Yes, its been done (though the energy isn't kinetic).

Could you give me an example, or something of the sort. Also, what would the kind of energy be? Constantly traveling at the highest possible velocity, I've always just seen that as kenetic matter. And we would be potential matter. Whatever, I don't know anything.
 
  • #26
Originally posted by Stryker
Could you give me an example, or something of the sort. Also, what would the kind of energy be? Constantly traveling at the highest possible velocity, I've always just seen that as kenetic matter. And we would be potential matter. Whatever, I don't know anything.
Since light doesn't have mass, you wouldn't really call its energy "kinetic." Anyway, there is speculation that you could use the light from the sun to power spacecraft with "solar sails."

Also, ever see the thing that looks like a light bulb with black and white paddle-wheels in it (common physics lab demonstration)? That works on light pressure.
 
  • #27
Originally posted by BOBwatches2muchtv
The Universe will end, though. All things do eventualy...
Operative word is "motion", can you prove that in what you call "The End" there is 'stillness' rather then continuing motion?
(P.S. even in the presently suspected/postulated/purported "Heat Death", there would still be movement/motion)
 

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