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LINEAR ALGEBRA: What is the relationship between ||y||^2 and y . x?

by VinnyCee
Tags: algebra, linear, relationship, ||y||2
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VinnyCee
#1
Nov6-06, 08:08 AM
P: 492
QUESTION (5.1, #30 -> Bretscher, O.):

Consider a subspace V of [tex]\mathbb{R}^n[/tex] and a vector [tex]\overrightarrow{x}[/tex] in [tex]\mathbb{R}^n[/tex]. Let [tex]\overrightarrow{y}\,=\,proj_v\,\overrightarrow{x}[/tex]. What is the relationship between the following quantities?

[tex]||\overrightarrow{y}||^2[/tex] and [tex]\overrightarrow{y}\,\cdot\,\overrightarrow{x}[/tex]


My work so far:

I only know this for sure...

[tex]||\overrightarrow{y}||\,\leq\,||\overrightarrow{x}||\,\iff\,\overrighta rrow{x}\,\in\,V[/tex]

But how do I use this to relate the two quantities? Please help, thanks!
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quasar987
#2
Nov6-06, 10:57 AM
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I assume [itex]\hat{v}[/itex] is a unit vector? Then [itex]\vec{y}=(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}[/itex]. I think this "substitution" is a good place to start.
VinnyCee
#3
Nov6-06, 05:42 PM
P: 492
Ok, I use that version and write:

[tex]\,\left[\left(\overrightarrow{v}\,\cdot\,\overrightarrow{x}\right)\,\overrighta rrow{v}\right]\,\cdot\,\left[\left(\overrightarrow{v}\,\cdot\,\overrightarrow{x}\right)\,\overrighta rrow{v}\right]\,[/tex]

[tex]\left[\left(\overrightarrow{v}\,\cdot\,\overrightarrow{x}\right)\,\overrighta rrow{v}\right]\,\cdot\,\overrightarrow{x}[/tex]

This is two equations in two variables.

Is the second one equal to zero?

quasar987
#4
Nov6-06, 05:49 PM
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LINEAR ALGEBRA: What is the relationship between ||y||^2 and y . x?

write the squared norm of y as [itex]||\vec{y}||^2=\vec{y}\cdot\vec{y}[/itex].

and simplify <y,x> a little also.

the relationship should become clear.

(Why would you think the second one equals to zero?)
VinnyCee
#5
Nov6-06, 06:22 PM
P: 492
The squared norm of y is [tex]||\,\left(\overrightarrow{v}\,\cdot\,\overrightarrow{x}\right)^2\,\over rightarrow{v}^2\,||[/tex]?

[tex]\overrightarrow{y}\,\cdot\,\overrightarrow{y}\,=\,||\overrightarrow{y}| |^2[/tex]

Does that sound right?
quasar987
#6
Nov6-06, 06:34 PM
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As I said, the squared norm (or norm squared if you'd like) of [itex]\vec{y}[/itex] is [itex]||\vec{y}||^2=\vec{y}\cdot\vec{y}[/itex].

And as I said in post #2, [itex]\vec{y}=(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}[/itex]. So

[tex]||\vec{y}||^2=(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}\cdot(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}[/tex].

Now use the properties of the scalar product to make that look nicer (e.g. [itex] \vec{a}\cdot \alpha\vec{b}= \alpha\vec{a}\cdot \vec{b}= \alpha(\vec{a}\cdot \vec{b})[/itex])
quasar987
#7
Nov6-06, 06:37 PM
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As a general rule, stay away from notational shortcuts like [itex]\vec{y}^2[/itex] in a mathematics course. Always write the ||
VinnyCee
#8
Nov6-06, 06:41 PM
P: 492
Like the first equation in post #3?

Scalar product properties?

So...

[tex]\hat{v}\,\left(\overrightarrow{x}\,\cdot\,\hat{v}\right)^2[/tex] is the norm squared?
VinnyCee
#9
Nov6-06, 06:54 PM
P: 492
I am guessing that this might have something to do with the Cauchy-Schwarz inequality since it is in the section and all, right?

[tex]|\vec{x}\,\cdot\,\vec{y}|\,\leq\,||\vec{x}||\,||\vec{y}||[/tex]

How do I use the inequality for this problem? Just start substituting?
quasar987
#10
Nov6-06, 06:56 PM
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The first equation in post #3 doesn't make much sense because the ||a|| notation means "norm of vector a", but in your first equation of post 3, you have a scalar in btw the ||.||. You don't even need absolute values either because [itex]\vec{y}\cdot\vec{y}=y_x^2+y_y^2+y_z^2[/itex] can never be negative.

So the equation to work with is [itex]||\vec{y}||^2=(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}\cdot(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}[/itex]

And if that is the norm squared, how did you pass from that to [itex]\hat{v}\,\left(\overrightarrow{x}\,\cdot\,\hat{v}\ \right)[/itex] as the norm squared?! This is not even a scalar!

You need to re-read your notes carefully I think!
VinnyCee
#11
Nov6-06, 07:02 PM
P: 492
So we have:

[tex]||\vec{y}||^2=(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}\cdot(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}[/tex]

But how do you simplify that expression? (without just going back to [tex]||\vec{y}||^2[/tex])
xAxis
#12
Nov6-06, 07:25 PM
P: 210
You can simplify it in many ways, but you must compare your RHS
[tex](\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}\cdot(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}[/tex]
with
[tex]\overrightarrow{y}\,\cdot\,\overrightarrow{x}[/tex]
quasar987
#13
Nov6-06, 07:27 PM
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Quote Quote by VinnyCee
So we have:

[tex]||\vec{y}||^2=(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}\cdot(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}[/tex]

But how do you simplify that expression? (without just going back to [tex]||\vec{y}||^2[/tex])
By the properties of the scalar product (or inner product or whatever you call the [itex]\cdot[/itex] operation). More precesily, use this property: [itex] \vec{a}\cdot \alpha\vec{b}= \alpha\vec{a}\cdot \vec{b}= \alpha(\vec{a}\cdot \vec{b})[/itex].
VinnyCee
#14
Nov6-06, 07:34 PM
P: 492
[tex]||\vec{y}||^2=(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}\cdot(\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})\hat{v}[/tex]

[tex]||\vec{y}||^2=(\vec{x} \cdot ||\vec{v}||^2)(\vec{x} \cdot ||\vec{v}||^2)=(||\vec{x}||^2 \cdot ||\vec{v}||^4)[/tex]
quasar987
#15
Nov6-06, 08:13 PM
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Sniff. Where do you pull all these equations from? Your last equation doesn't make sense and you should see it! You're taking the dot product of scalars!


You have the template right here:

[tex] \vec{a}\cdot \alpha\vec{b}= \alpha\vec{a}\cdot \vec{b}= \alpha(\vec{a}\cdot \vec{b})[/tex]

Except in your case, [itex]\alpha = (\vec{x}\cdot \hat{v})[/itex] and [itex]\vec{a}=\vec{b}=\hat{v}[/itex]. And also, both a and b are multiplied by a constant.
VinnyCee
#16
Nov6-06, 08:35 PM
P: 492
[tex]||\vec{y}||^2=\alpha(\vec{a}) \cdot \alpha(\vec{a})[/tex]

But what is the result of a dot product between two identical vectors?
quasar987
#17
Nov6-06, 08:43 PM
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You've only rewritten the equation by changing the notation. You're not more advanced.

Use the property of the dot product that allows you to take the alpha's and pull them in front: [tex] \vec{a}\cdot \alpha\vec{b}= \alpha\vec{a}\cdot \vec{b}= \alpha(\vec{a}\cdot \vec{b})[/tex]
VinnyCee
#18
Nov6-06, 08:59 PM
P: 492
[tex]||\vec{y}||^2=\alpha^2 \vec{a} \cdot \vec{a}[/tex]?


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