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Why do they lie about death?

by Vast
Tags: death
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Vast
#1
Jul23-04, 02:05 PM
P: 283
It seems to me that constructing a belief that your spirit or soul will exist after you have physically died has been used to make one feel better or even help deal with the inevitable death weíre all going to face.

But why should a delusion or lie help give you any more solace than accepting death as being the last moment you will ever exist?
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THANOS
#2
Jul24-04, 02:16 PM
P: 217
Death is beautiful isn't it?
Les Sleeth
#3
Jul24-04, 02:52 PM
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Quote Quote by Vast
It seems to me that constructing a belief that your spirit or soul will exist after you have physically died has been used to make one feel better or even help deal with the inevitable death weíre all going to face.

But why should a delusion or lie help give you any more solace than accepting death as being the last moment you will ever exist?
Whether it has been used to feel better about death is a different issue than if it is true or not. Some feel it is possible because of certain experiences they've had, and so is not a "lie" to them.

Vast
#4
Jul24-04, 03:32 PM
P: 283
Why do they lie about death?

Quote Quote by Les Sleeth
Whether it has been used to feel better about death is a different issue than if it is true or not. Some feel it is possible because of certain experiences they've had, and so is not a "lie" to them.
Yes Iím aware that if you believe in a delusion it then ceases to become a lie whether you tell it to yourself or tell it to others. (Think George Costanza; ďitís not a lie if you believe itĒ)

So letís just assume the concept of life after death has always been a delusion, a mechanism in dealing with death? Surely we know better in this day and age? That once the brain ceases to exist so does any form of consciousness? And science does!

I too have had experiences, almost died in my sleep, and as a result had the usual out of body experience. But I donít jump to the conclusion that what I experienced was proof that the mind can exist after the body has died.

Most people here know there is no soul or spirit that exists after death, and no amount of so called scientific study that proves otherwise, be it hypnosis revealing past lives, accounts of near death experiences, is going to convince anyone here. Fact of the matter is we know it doesnít existÖ

So does believing in this delusion help deal with the acceptance of death? Should I believe it or let others believe it?
Vast
#5
Jul24-04, 03:34 PM
P: 283
Quote Quote by THANOS
Death is beautiful isn't it?
merak
#6
Jul24-04, 04:27 PM
P: 52
no one knows what happens when you die.those who claim to know, do not.(speculation).
Les Sleeth
#7
Jul24-04, 04:33 PM
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Quote Quote by Vast
Yes Iím aware that if you believe in a delusion it then ceases to become a lie whether you tell it to yourself or tell it to others. (Think George Costanza; ďitís not a lie if you believe itĒ)
I wasn't talking about mere belief.


Quote Quote by Vast
So letís just assume the concept of life after death has always been a delusion, a mechanism in dealing with death? Surely we know better in this day and age? That once the brain ceases to exist so does any form of consciousness? And science does!
Science does not know what happens to consciousness after death.


Quote Quote by Vast
I too have had experiences, almost died in my sleep, and as a result had the usual out of body experience. But I donít jump to the conclusion that what I experienced was proof that the mind can exist after the body has died.
I agree jumping to the conclusion there's life after death based on limited experiences isn't wise. I don't know of any experience that would "prove" life after death. However . . . (see next comment)


Quote Quote by Vast
Most people here know there is no soul or spirit that exists after death, and no amount of so called scientific study that proves otherwise, be it hypnosis revealing past lives, accounts of near death experiences, is going to convince anyone here. Fact of the matter is we know it doesnít existÖ
You better study up before saying such things. There is absolutely no proof of anything you've said there, and I doubt anyone knows for certain about life after death.
THANOS
#8
Jul24-04, 08:03 PM
P: 217
To understand death I think you must understand life. If your life has no meaning and the chances are your death has no meaning. If you life has meaning then perhaps your death has meaning also.

That is what I find so beautiful about life and death. There are two answers that make most question whether they have meaning or not. The logical answer is the meaningless one and the spiritual one has meaning. But you can actually logically come up with an answer between them both.

Death is a mystery to me. But I do belive that physically I shall continue on being a part of whatever or where ever my body lies to rott, burned or contained who really know what crazy people would do to your body. Whether or not a spirit lives on is yet to be known. One thing that makes me question a spirit is that we humans are not as evolved as we hope we are. We do not have the sight to see all. Technology may help but unlikly anytime soon. Thats why i don't see to believe only because our eyes are not perfect and light can be manipulated. I see in my dreams but that doesn't make it real.
I guess it is a long way of saying I don't know, but I felt I should give a little reason to my knowledge of not knowing.
Life has reason, otherwise it wouldn't exist.
Jim Beam
#9
Jul24-04, 10:02 PM
P: 20
im a christian, but i wont delve too far. for the meantime though, consider this: If my beliefs happen to be correct,, then the best that can happen is that i will go to heaven when i die. If not, then the worse that can happen is that i will decompose inside of the Earth. I an atheist beliefs are correct, then the best that can happen is that they decompose in the earth. The worse is that they wont go to heaven. So, even though there should be a deeper reasoning for believing than simple deduction of logic, nonetheless, simple logic dictates that your best option is to be a believer.

now, im not going to argue too much, and i will agree that "scientifically" no proof exists or ever will exist to confirm the belief of life after death. However, this is where faith plays an important part in one's beliefs. now, before you denounce the notion of faith, remember that just as 4 can be described as 2 + 2 or 6 - 2, different methods of explanation can often yield the same results, and current science may not be the accurate explanation for events in nature. Now, we mutually know that this is farfetched, but there exists the possibility anyway, putting your belief in the scientific law one of faith since the percentage of its accuracy can never reach 100.
balkan
#10
Jul25-04, 12:08 AM
P: 206
Quote Quote by Jim Beam
im a christian, but i wont delve too far. for the meantime though, consider this: If my beliefs happen to be correct,, then the best that can happen is that i will go to heaven when i die. If not, then the worse that can happen is that i will decompose inside of the Earth. I an atheist beliefs are correct, then the best that can happen is that they decompose in the earth. The worse is that they wont go to heaven. So, even though there should be a deeper reasoning for believing than simple deduction of logic, nonetheless, simple logic dictates that your best option is to be a believer.
yes of course... i will go strap on the cross and be better off...
i'll leave all you poor buddhists, atheists and nature god people to burn in hell... cause that's what you will do... burn in hell... for not believing...
what a nice god, really... i'm just thrilled with joy of being one of his followers... some of you others migth call that kind of leader a merciless "dictator", but i'm better off than you, so i laugh in your face! haha!

i love religion... it's amazing how a method of control can still capture the minds of people, even several thousand years after it's creation...
Vast
#11
Jul25-04, 02:48 AM
P: 283
See this is what I also find to be a little misleading. Those that do believe there is life after death say that if you donít believe you donít walk through the pearly gates of heaven. In other words you Must believe that when you die your soul or spirit will exist, or otherwise you simply wonít exist.

Sounds way to familiar to the believers in god will walk through those gates as mentioned in the bible. But let me ask those that do believe in life after death, if your soul or spirit does continue on, whatís the difference if you believe or not? Is there some secret code Iím unaware of that states in order to exist after Iím dead I must believe? lol, come on! It makes no difference, and further more I know for certain there is no after life.

But religions aside, I think thereís a deeper reason for why we believe in an after life, if you care to listenÖ
Religions for one thing began around 50,000 years ago, and in regards to my first post which was essentially to do with why such a belief has been constructed can probably be seen in other species as well. Elephants seem to show some type of grieving behavior when another elephant dies, so do monkeys and any other species with a relatively large brainÖ

I canít understand why most people find death to be so mysterious. It isnít! if your brain dies, so does your consciousness. Itís really that simple.

The Egyptians and other civilization of that era built tombs to take their wealth with them in the after life. If this is true or not Iím not sure, but they were almost certain of an after life.
Although the notion of an after life seems to come in all different shapes and colors, it can surely be seen as a mass delusion?
Kerrie
#12
Jul25-04, 11:04 AM
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Quote Quote by Vast
It seems to me that constructing a belief that your spirit or soul will exist after you have physically died has been used to make one feel better or even help deal with the inevitable death weíre all going to face.

But why should a delusion or lie help give you any more solace than accepting death as being the last moment you will ever exist?
perhaps to ease the pain of anticipating death is why those choose to believe this, or the really believe it...perhaps those who fear death are not living to their fullest now and somehow subconciously realize it...
Vast
#13
Jul25-04, 12:03 PM
P: 283
Quote Quote by Kerrie
perhaps to ease the pain of anticipating death is why those choose to believe this, or the really believe it...perhaps those who fear death are not living to their fullest now and somehow subconciously realize it...
So let me see if Iíve got this right.

If you fear death, you subconsciously realize life is precious because you know your only here for a limited amount of time. Therefore wouldnít that be a good thing? Otherwise if you had no fear of dying and you believed you will be rewarded with virgins in paradise after a terrorist attack, you might go and do all sorts of crazy ****.

It just seems to me believing in life after death creates problems, even if itís used to ease emotional painÖ
Kerrie
#14
Jul25-04, 12:35 PM
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vast, i was just suggesting a theory...maybe those who fear death the most are the ones who are "waiting" for life to happen (and are afraid it won't before they pass away)...does that make better sense? also, no one knows 100% what happens to the energy (or "spirit") once we die...it could be possible that the energy it takes for us to be alive transfers elsewhere-and not necessarily in the form of human life.
Vast
#15
Jul25-04, 01:33 PM
P: 283
Quote Quote by Kerrie
vast, i was just suggesting a theory...maybe those who fear death the most are the ones who are "waiting" for life to happen (and are afraid it won't before they pass away)...does that make better sense? also, no one knows 100% what happens to the energy (or "spirit") once we die...it could be possible that the energy it takes for us to be alive transfers elsewhere-and not necessarily in the form of human life.
When I was a naÔve young boy, I was actually looking forward to death because I found it fascinating that people could somehow exist after they had died. You could say I no longer look forward to dying, but at the same time I donít really fear it.

I understand what your saying kerrie, only that I donít agree with those fearing death are waiting for anything. If your afraid of not living life to the fullest before your die, then in a sense you value life all the moreÖ
Kerrie
#16
Jul25-04, 03:34 PM
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Quote Quote by Vast
If your afraid of not living life to the fullest before your die, then in a sense you value life all the moreÖ
this sounds good in theory, however this is not human nature tends to work...besides, these were not my words, so perhaps you did misunderstand me ....what i said is those who don't realize that they are not living life to the fullest could be more prone to fearing death because they are waiting for their life to "begin" or to finally take meaning for them, and are afraid it won't "happen" before then...thus they may believe in the afterworld to give them "hope" to what their life is all about...without this topic getting religious, many people are taught that you have to do good deeds here on earth in order to get to "heaven" or wherever you want to call it...i say that your chance to live that life (so to speak) is now in the present so that when the day comes to depart from life as we know it, there are no regrets of not enjoying existence in the here and now...
Wolf
#17
Aug12-04, 09:03 AM
P: 53
Matter of opinion like so many other things to belive or not either way we all face one fact we cannot avoid


"Death awaits us all, it's how you arive to death that counts"


"Death stares us all in the face all one can do is stare back and laugh"
Wolf
#18
Aug12-04, 09:07 AM
P: 53
Quote Quote by balkan
yes of course... i will go strap on the cross and be better off...
i'll leave all you poor buddhists, atheists and nature god people to burn in hell... cause that's what you will do... burn in hell... for not believing...
what a nice god, really... i'm just thrilled with joy of being one of his followers... some of you others migth call that kind of leader a merciless "dictator", but i'm better off than you, so i laugh in your face! haha!

i love religion... it's amazing how a method of control can still capture the minds of people, even several thousand years after it's creation...




I LOVE YOU

Finaly someone else who see that "god" and "santa" are alike

"Be good and receive or be bad and do not"


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