How does an electret retain its charge for years without decreasing?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mechanisms by which electrets retain their charge over extended periods, including their ability to "recharge" after discharge. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of electrets, particularly in relation to their electric polarization and the effects of environmental factors such as air ions and vacuum conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that electrets can retain their charge for years due to their permanent electric polarization, which is not altered by the neutralization of their electric field by air ions.
  • One participant describes a scenario where a bar electret, such as one made from barium titanate, experiences discharge when ions in the air neutralize its electric field, but this does not affect its permanent polarization.
  • Another participant suggests that the concept of "recharging" an electret involves removing air ions to restore its polarization field, implying that in a vacuum, the electret could remain charged indefinitely.
  • There is a consideration of spark discharge between the terminals of the electret, with one participant questioning whether this would lead to a loss of charge, suggesting that the charges involved are bound polarization charges that would not be lost through shorting.
  • Some participants note that the shorting wire may become polarized when in contact with the electret, but this induced polarization would dissipate once the wire is removed, allowing the electret's electric field to return to its original state.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the details of these processes, with one explicitly stating a lack of experience with electrets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the mechanisms of charge retention and recharging in electrets, with multiple competing views and uncertainties remaining in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of discharge and recharging, as well as the potential influence of environmental factors that are not fully explored in the discussion.

arul_k
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How is an electret capable of recharging itself after discharge. I came across an article that stated tha electrets are capable of retaining their charge for years and any number of discharges does not decrease their charge. how does this happen?
 
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arul_k said:
How is an electret capable of recharging itself after discharge. I came across an article that stated tha electrets are capable of retaining their charge for years and any number of discharges does not decrease their charge. how does this happen?

In the case of a bar electret (e.g. one made out of barium titanate) "discharge" might occur when ions in the air are attracted to the ends, thus neutralizing the electret's electric field. This process does not change the bar's permanent, electric polarization. When the electret is "recharged", by stripping away the air ions, the bar's polarization field is restored until "discharge" occurs again. Kept in a vacuum, the electret should remain "charged" indefinitely.
 
GRDixon said:
In the case of a bar electret (e.g. one made out of barium titanate) "discharge" might occur when ions in the air are attracted to the ends, thus neutralizing the electret's electric field. This process does not change the bar's permanent, electric polarization. When the electret is "recharged", by stripping away the air ions, the bar's polarization field is restored until "discharge" occurs again. Kept in a vacuum, the electret should remain "charged" indefinitely.

Thanks for your reply. I was thinking in terms of a spark discharge that would occour between the +ve and -ve terminals of the electret, when shorted. The process you suggest seems more like a neutralisation of the electric field.
 
arul_k said:
Thanks for your reply. I was thinking in terms of a spark discharge that would occour between the +ve and -ve terminals of the electret, when shorted. The process you suggest seems more like a neutralisation of the electric field.

The key to the puzzle may be that the charges responsible for an electret's field are POLARIZATION charges, and are therefore bound charges. As such, shorting the poles as suggested will not result in a loss of the polarization charge. The shorting wire, which does contain conduction electrons, no doubt becomes electrically polarized while in contact (or in close proximity) with the electret's poles. But once removed, it loses this induced polarization and the electret's intrinsic electric field returns to its nominal value. Any conduction charges that "rub off" of the shorting wire, and stick to the electret's positive pole, might be relatively unimportant, as the electret is a dielectric.

But all of the above should be taken with a grain of salt, as I am not experienced with these fascinating devices.
 

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