Evolution? Good Discussion here

DR_henegar

I can probably argue against evolution without biblical references? Anyone wish to hear my argument?

bobze

Sure

ZapperZ

You do so at your own risk, per the PF Rules that you had agreed to regarding speculative, personal theory.

Zz.

Fredrik

You should also check out one of the many evolution FAQs available online, to see if your arguments have already been refuted. Try this one for example. If you want to speculate beyond what the forum rules allow, the JREF forum is a good place to do that.

thE3nigma

Still if the man says he has references that are not religious then lets here him out. I think that is a very important part of science, because without open discussion I do not think any field of science will ever advance.

In response to the OP, I wouldn't mind hearing your arguments.

Kglocc

Yeah I'm interested to hear what you have to say. Send me a message with your argument please.

Gokul43201

Very good. You should feel free to host or suggest a forum where anyone can post their personal speculation. PF is not that place.

If the OP has references from acceptable peer reviewed journals, then that's definitely fair game here.

thE3nigma

Well as far as my common sense tells me, that is what the OP had in mind. By the way, I have done some of my own research and discussed certain topics on this such issue with Professors, and I have to honestly say there are a lot of problems with this Theory still. PF should not hide this fact just because the media "thinks" Evolution is complete and perfect; it is far from anything like that.

Evo

Hide what? Evolution has been accurately presented in this forum. Do you know what a theory is? Do you understand what the theory of evolution is? A theory is never "complete and perfect" to use your own words.

DaveC426913

Not only does no serious scientist think evolution is complete or perfect but I'm pretty sure this "media" you speak of does not think that either.

I'd say you're trying to stir a pot.

What you need to understand is that PF is first and foremost a source for mainstream science (taught in schools). There are plenty of fora for flogging speculative hypotheses; this just isn't one of them.

russ_watters

Don't hold your breath for something new and exciting. I'd be willing to bet a rediculous amount of money that the idea the OP has is just one of the several typical/common misconceptions about evolution that we've all heard dozens of times.

thE3nigma

Please do not get me wrong. I firstly did not try in any way to stir up a debate, or a pot? seriously? :). The only thing I was trying to say is I believe what the OP will talk about is clearly those areas in which we lack understanding. Obviously though, this is something we have to accept, and these areas which lack understanding aren't speculative hypothesis or anything, it is just a part of the working Theory.

bobze

Out of curiosity, what areas do you believe evolutionary theory to be "lacking"?

thE3nigma

Well since I do prefer genetics myself mostly, I can only speak primarily about that area itself as related to evolution. One such question is how variation truly arises. I know the common mainstream answer: mutation. And although I agree with that answer to a certain aspect, as in primarily within single-celled organisms; I do not believe it is the only answer or even the main process of variation creation within higher-order species. The reason I ask this question, is because science has yet to provide any concrete example of a perfect variation according to mutations. Most of the experiments I have seen and read about have produced no new useful traits.

DaveC426913

Wait. What?

What is a 'perfect' variation?
What would you consider a 'useful' trait?

I have a feeling I know where this is headed...

thE3nigma

Well why don't I ask you Mr. Dave what a useful trait. According to the Theory, a useful trait would be anything that helps the species or individual at least, become adapted to his new environment. That is all it is. As far as I know, most studies that have placed any form of stress or say change in the environment of a species have not produced a change in that species that was helpful to it in any way. This is obviously not true for single celled organisms which have immediate phenotype changes upon mutation.

You know I would love to actually hear something smart from you once Mr. Dave. All you keep doing is replying with one liners that aren't really helping this conversation go anywhere. Feedback would be appreciated. I assume that is what the role and goal of PF is, correct?

cesiumfrog

How about the experiment in which E.coli, by a sequence of random mutations, developed the new ability to digest a different abundant food source (and ceased to be E.coli)?