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Is There a Deeper Explanation for Coincidence in Physics?

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Inquirer1
#1
Jul21-11, 02:22 PM
P: n/a
Strange sequences of events seem to happen to all of us at one time or another, more specifically events that are highly unlikely to occur in the same sequence. For example, one thinks of a particular scene of a television show or movie; the individual turns on his or her TV moments later and watches that same scene.

I found out recently that psychologist Carl Jung identified this phenomenon long ago and labeled it "synchronicity." I realize this is not a psychology forum, and I don't intend to post this question in a context of psychology. The only physics-related results involving synchronicity I could find involve astrology and religion. I am looking for a more scientific approach.

Is there an explanation for this in physics? Has there ever been any more recent research on the matter? What evidence is there to support your answer?

Thank you for your time.
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DaveC426913
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Jul21-11, 02:30 PM
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Quote Quote by Inquirer1 View Post
Strange sequences of events seem to happen to all of us at one time or another, more specifically events that are highly unlikely to occur in the same sequence. For example, one thinks of a particular scene of a television show or movie; the individual turns on his or her TV moments later and watches that same scene.

I found out recently that psychologist Carl Jung identified this phenomenon long ago and labeled it "synchronicity." I realize this is not a psychology forum, and I don't intend to post this question in a context of psychology. The only physics-related results involving synchronicity I could find involve astrology and religion. I am looking for a more scientific approach.

Is there an explanation for this in physics? Has there ever been any more recent research on the matter? What evidence is there to support your answer?

Thank you for your time.
There are lots of things that explain apparent coincidences. Many of them have to do with selection bias - the tendency to notice something more once it's been brought to your attention.

But most coincidences, by the definition of coincidence, do not need explaining. They are coincidences.

Bob is returning home from the West Coast while Bill is heading to the West Coast for vacation along the TransCanada highway. What a coincidence that they ran into each other!

No, it is actually inevitable that their paths cross.

Any common or repeating event is bound to overlap antoher common repeating event. It's virtually inevitable.
BWV
#3
Jul21-11, 03:04 PM
P: 328
its data mining - out of the huge number of events in our lives its inevitable that there will be a few seemingly improbable coincidences

sort of a vastly expanded version of this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem

jbar18
#4
Jul21-11, 05:15 PM
P: 53
Is There a Deeper Explanation for Coincidence in Physics?

Coincidences like the example you gave I have always attributed to psychology; to explain using a similar example to yours, if you thought of a movie scene and then were not watching that same scene later, you would not notice the "coincidence" and so would not consider it strange. In fact you'd probably just forget about it. And maybe every so often it won't be a pure coincidence, using the same example again you may imagine the film scene, and then on some subconscious level deliberately try to find that film on TV. Or something. Anyway, in my opinion I don't think it's a question for physics really.
Inquirer1
#5
Jul21-11, 06:05 PM
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The suggestions offered so far are precisely what I thought at first. But some of these instances can be very specific and fairly common (I admittedly attribute their being common as arbitrary; it's "common" because we pay more attention after it happens once or multiple times). A more personal and specific example would be when I was playing a game, in which I found a location called "Dragon's Den." I got bored with the game after finding it, set it aside, scrolled through the channels on the television, and saw a show called "Dragon's Den." Along with a series of other very unlikely events that have happened recently, I feel it begs the question of whether or not there are coincidental events so precise that there is an empirical explanation for them.
Jimmy
#6
Jul21-11, 06:54 PM
P: 665
Occasionally, I will think of someone and moments later they will call me on the telephone. Much more often, I will think of someone and nothing happens.
Newai
#7
Jul21-11, 07:10 PM
P: 107
Is this how gambling addicts are made?
jim hardy
#8
Jul21-11, 07:20 PM
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I assume you read Jung's book on synchronicity.

Einstein's dad ran an electromagnet factory where Albert played as a child. So he was imprinted at early age with electromagnetic phenomena. I believe he imprinted 20th century science to point we dismiss anything not of electromagnetic nature.

try a google search on terms: Jung Pauli "Princeton Letters"
Wolfgang Pauli and Carl Jung exchanged a lot of ideas.

See if you can find the yahoo group "Neutron Repulsion". There are recent posts along the lines you are pondering.

You might enjoy Robert Jastrow's little book "God and the Astronomers".

Who knows - electricity used to be a parlor game just like Ouija board.

Do you perjhaps have a friend who seems always to call on the phone the instant you walk in the door? As if they knew?

may the Force be with you --

old jim
phinds
#9
Jul21-11, 10:04 PM
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I once read an interesting article that argued, quite convincingly (and I believe correctly), that what would be STAGGERINGLY weird would be if we did NOT experience odd coincidences from time to time.
DaveC426913
#10
Jul21-11, 10:19 PM
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Quote Quote by Inquirer1 View Post
A more personal and specific example would be when I was playing a game, in which I found a location called "Dragon's Den." I got bored with the game after finding it, set it aside, scrolled through the channels on the television, and saw a show called "Dragon's Den."
A perfect example.

How many other events happened in that game that never correlated with something later on? Dozens? Hundreds?

Yet, one event overlaps another (at some arbitrarily later time) and it's a synchronicity that needs explaining? Why?

Frankly, it would be surprising if an event in a sea of hundreds of events (the game) did not overlap at least once with one event in another sea of hundreds of events (TV). Especially if you give it enough time.
Proton Soup
#11
Jul21-11, 10:42 PM
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Quote Quote by Newai View Post
Is this how gambling addicts are made?
it's no coincidence. payoff size, frequency, distribution, etc. are all analyzed scientifically to maximize gambling behavior.

doesn't help to be born with the wrong brain chemistry, either.
Inquirer1
#12
Jul22-11, 02:07 AM
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Quote Quote by DaveC426913 View Post
Frankly, it would be surprising if an event in a sea of hundreds of events (the game) did not overlap at least once with one event in another sea of hundreds of events (TV). Especially if you give it enough time.
I've thought this all along. There have been some interesting circumstances in my life that have been messing with my head, I suppose. Thank you all for your input. Any extra input from here on is welcome as well.
Ken Natton
#13
Jul22-11, 03:50 AM
P: 272
Well, Inquirer1, Iím not sure that I really have anything to add to what has already been said, but at youíre specific invitation, Iíll throw my two penníorth in. I agree with what has been said Ė sometimes in life, the most outrageous coincidences really are just that and there is no need to lose any sleep over them. It is perhaps just the same as others have already said, but there is a phenomenon that psychologists call Ďattachmentí. If there is something that is much in your mind then you may well witness a completely unrelated event and read into it a connection with whatever is bothering you that isnít really warranted.

But the possibly different perspective that I thought worth mentioning is that sometimes you need to be careful about dismissing as coincidence something that really is not coincidence at all. That is not to suggest that there is any supernatural or even some deeper physical explanation, but to suggest that sometimes there may be a perfectly obvious, rational causal link. And again, it is not my intention to encourage paranoia. But sometimes there is a need to ask yourself Ė was that really coincidental or is there something more to it?
Ryan_m_b
#14
Jul22-11, 04:59 AM
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To quote Tim Minchin: things with a one in a hundred million chance happen....all the f***ing time. As has been pointed out coincidence are always different; perhaps one time in a month you will think of someone just as they ring, one time a month you will be talking about your favourite dinner only to get home and find it waiting, one time a month you think you see someone but it's not them only to bump into them later etc etc etc. It's all conformational bias.
zoobyshoe
#15
Jul22-11, 07:24 AM
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From the thread title I thought this thread was going to be about the strange fact that very frequently two separate physicists have made the same important discovery, at around the same time, independently of each other.
wuliheron
#16
Jul22-11, 08:55 AM
P: 1,967
Quote Quote by Inquirer1 View Post
Strange sequences of events seem to happen to all of us at one time or another, more specifically events that are highly unlikely to occur in the same sequence. For example, one thinks of a particular scene of a television show or movie; the individual turns on his or her TV moments later and watches that same scene.

I found out recently that psychologist Carl Jung identified this phenomenon long ago and labeled it "synchronicity." I realize this is not a psychology forum, and I don't intend to post this question in a context of psychology. The only physics-related results involving synchronicity I could find involve astrology and religion. I am looking for a more scientific approach.

Is there an explanation for this in physics? Has there ever been any more recent research on the matter? What evidence is there to support your answer?

Thank you for your time.
Coincidence and synchronicity are metaphysical terms and physics doesn't address metaphysical issues. Its along the lines of asking if physics or your auto mechanic have anything to say about God. Yeah, I'm sure you can find some auto mechanic somewhere willing to argue the V8 engine proves the existence of God, but most will just look at you like you've lost your mind.
Galteeth
#17
Jul22-11, 10:42 AM
P: 320
Quote Quote by zoobyshoe View Post
From the thread title I thought this thread was going to be about the strange fact that very frequently two separate physicists have made the same important discovery, at around the same time, independently of each other.

That's not really that surprising. Discoveries aren't made in a vacuum. Advances come when the science has gotten to a point that the intellectual tools to make such advances are possible. Also, multiple people will often be working on the same unresolved problems.
Jack21222
#18
Jul22-11, 11:42 AM
P: 772
Quote Quote by Inquirer1 View Post
Strange sequences of events seem to happen to all of us at one time or another, more specifically events that are highly unlikely to occur in the same sequence. For example, one thinks of a particular scene of a television show or movie; the individual turns on his or her TV moments later and watches that same scene.

I found out recently that psychologist Carl Jung identified this phenomenon long ago and labeled it "synchronicity." I realize this is not a psychology forum, and I don't intend to post this question in a context of psychology. The only physics-related results involving synchronicity I could find involve astrology and religion. I am looking for a more scientific approach.

Is there an explanation for this in physics? Has there ever been any more recent research on the matter? What evidence is there to support your answer?

Thank you for your time.
Think of all of the coincidences that COULD happen, but don't. I think you'll find that they VASTLY outnumber the ones that actually do. As a wild guess, I'd estimate it's on the order of 1 coincidence occured for every million coincidences that COULD have happened.


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