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The fine line between marriage and divorce...

by rhody
Tags: divorce, fine, line, marriage
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Edin_Dzeko
#19
Nov4-11, 12:09 PM
P: 223
Quote Quote by cmb View Post
Can't live with 'em. Can't live without 'em!

I reckon the optimum number of married partners to have is around 0.3, but unfortunately they only come in integer values. Thinking about divorce every so often is therefore an attempt at 'PWM'-ing the on-or-off status of marriage to the preferred value. It's why many re-marry after divorce.

The most successful, divorce-free marriages I have seen are where;
a) one partner fully, and genuinely, hands over responsibility for the married life, has no ambitions other that to perform their task [whether employed or housekeeping] and will defer on all decisions to the other partner,
b) both are happy to go off to do 'their own thing' and live their own lives for >50% of the time,
c) argue like cat-and-dog (let's off steam) but forget immediately what they were arguing about.

The bad marriages typically occur where;
a) one is, or both are, totally infatuated with the other at the outset, because this never lasts and new ambitions (work/love-life) evolve
b) one feels ignored when the other explores their own pursuits,
c) argue like cat-and-dog and have long memories of what they were arguing about.
Nicely put.
Mépris
#20
Nov4-11, 12:09 PM
P: 830
@cmb
Going by this portrayal of a successful marriage, the one of my parents is a near-successful one.

If that's how it is, a marriage is not what I want. I'm fine with "just" being happy (or trying to). Does it somehow make me less of a person if I don't want to put that much effort into it? *I think* not. I want "happy" and I can get it via different means. Turns out one of them is a successful/happy marriage but I don't think that's ideal for me (at least, not for the "me of now") and there's other, shorter or/and more effective routes to achieving that.
Mépris
#21
Nov4-11, 12:17 PM
P: 830
@E_D
Maybe no one else is. I only know people I'm exposed to...somehow. And these people seem to stick to their older friends even if they're not particularly happy with it. My understanding is that people, in general, are not too comfortable with change. I'm no psychologist and there's only so much I can learn from observing, interacting and deducing on such a limited data set when dealing with things that can so easily get subjective...

My examples were very specific ones. I'm not trying to be (too) pedantic but you referred to "teens" as a collective.

Why do you think my view is a bad one?
Edin_Dzeko
#22
Nov4-11, 01:34 PM
P: 223
Quote Quote by Mépris View Post
@E_D
Maybe no one else is. I only know people I'm exposed to...somehow. And these people seem to stick to their older friends even if they're not particularly happy with it. My understanding is that people, in general, are not too comfortable with change. I'm no psychologist and there's only so much I can learn from observing, interacting and deducing on such a limited data set when dealing with things that can so easily get subjective...

My examples were very specific ones. I'm not trying to be (too) pedantic but you referred to "teens" as a collective.

Why do you think my view is a bad one?
We are dealing with human beings here. And the behavior of humans when it comes to relationships. That's very complex and it's tricky because human beings and their behaviors as it pertain to relationships are NOT the same (unpredictable).

If we were conducting an experiment, we could say, here's our control group, here's that and get the experiment underway. But with marriage it's different. Several factors come into play. Religious views, traditional views, cultural views, upbringing are all factors that come into play in-terms of how a man treats his wife, how a woman treats her husband, how people view divorce. Some culture's it a big shame for a woman to say she's been divorced by her husband. Having two / three marriages is not something to proudly broadcast in some cultures and societies. These are all factors that come into play with marriage. The report that the OP initially posted was about groups of women 200, 300 etc., but it doesn't tell you anything about the factors I mentioned above. These all come into play.

Your view, posts are biased because you've repeatedly admitted you're just not the marriage type. You don't like marriage or the idea of it and in-fact you'll go for "happiness" whatever that means, over marriage. Now, someone holding such a view on marriage, what kind of things do you expect to read from the person about the subject?

You bring up your parents as an example, and said they're probably thinking of divorcing every now and then but just don't show it. Do you know the kind of intimate connection / bond that has been created between them? You don't have access to that kind of level because it's between just the two of them. your observations are not enough to arrive at such a conclusion.

You keep talking about this idea that people are "forcing themselves" to stay with others. I think you're just afraid of commitment.
Edin_Dzeko
#23
Nov4-11, 01:39 PM
P: 223
Quote Quote by Mépris View Post
@cmb
Going by this portrayal of a successful marriage, the one of my parents is a near-successful one.

If that's how it is, a marriage is not what I want. I'm fine with "just" being happy (or trying to). Does it somehow make me less of a person if I don't want to put that much effort into it? *I think* not. I want "happy" and I can get it via different means. Turns out one of them is a successful/happy marriage but I don't think that's ideal for me (at least, not for the "me of now") and there's other, shorter or/and more effective routes to achieving that.
[1]you don't put effort into a marriage it wont work. Common sense.
[2]there lies the problem. You're too young to understand
[3]"shorter" that's another problem. you've been brainwashed and sucked into "fast-pace" gimme quick quick of your culture. doesn't happen overnight. It takes time and you're going to bump into problems along the way. that seems to be what you're struggling to accept. the idea that someone will stay with someone (commitment) when problems show up rather than just walk-out / leave. you don't want to be tied down you just want to suck the juice out and go on to the next one. marriage isn't like your boyfriend/girlfriend relationships.
cmb
#24
Nov4-11, 02:07 PM
P: 628
Quote Quote by Edin_Dzeko View Post
[1]you don't put effort into a marriage it wont work. Common sense.
's funny that many folks don't get this.

A marriage is not about creating a perfect and harmonous pleasure palace for yourselves, it is about the effort and what you do when things go wrong. The 'value' of a marriage is the sum total of effort you have put in to overcome problems together.
Mépris
#25
Nov4-11, 11:24 PM
P: 830
Why should people be married? In what way is a monogamous domestic partnership wrong? Why do you think that being in one implies that one cannot have a perfectly fine relationship on a physical and emotional level?

Quote Quote by Edin_Dzeko View Post
It's just your opinion / pref and that's okay. My pref / opinion is that I would have it easy and not stress out. I would breeze through the work, go hang with the guys or something than sit there going in circles for ages. .
There comes a point where the relationship feels a little like that. My point is that people *can* change and when it comes to a point where the people involved just can't click anymore. At this point, I think it's best to move on. We're talking about people with feelings of their own here, not a math problem I can keep in a drawer and pull back five years later.

I also believe that one should try to live happily. I don't see the point in purposely doing things that make one unhappy.
Edin_Dzeko
#26
Nov5-11, 08:58 PM
P: 223
Quote Quote by Mépris View Post
Why should people be married? In what way is a monogamous domestic partnership wrong? Why do you think that being in one implies that one cannot have a perfectly fine relationship on a physical and emotional level?

There comes a point where the relationship feels a little like that. My point is that people *can* change and when it comes to a point where the people involved just can't click anymore. At this point, I think it's best to move on. We're talking about people with feelings of their own here, not a math problem I can keep in a drawer and pull back five years later.

I also believe that one should try to live happily. I don't see the point in purposely doing things that make one unhappy.
[1] Listen to yourself. So you'll be in a long relationship with someone, live in the same house with them. Do the same things a married couple does but you just don't want to be considered married? Seems like you're scared of something there. Your fear is with marriage itself. Scared of divorce? Wife getting half of your things? Commitment? You're scared of something. It's weird that you're defending living with someone but not marrying. Why not just go on ahead and marry the person? I don't have anything against monogamous domestic partnership. You're the one who seem to have something against marriage hence your, "why should people be married?" intro.

[2] (a)LOL. . You stalked me all the way in the academic forum just to pull my quote from there and use it here? (b)don't be silly. How can you compare math and academics to relationships? Get real, Mep. Can't even believe that. It's not best to move on. A marriage is a commitment. You don't just walk out when it gets hard. This idea of moving on to the next one doesn't hold here. Marriage isn't like your high school boyfriend and girlfriend relationships where you get tired of this guy/girl and go on to the next hot thing. Some way after getting married completely stop taking care of themselves. doesn't work that way. You still have to dress nice, get your hair done, stay in good shape for your man/woman. Keep the fire burning and don't just walk out to the next one. You swore vows "'til death do you apart". Know what that means? Simple English here, wo(man).

[3] Marriage is also about sacrifice. I might have to sacrifice for my wife. Maybe give up something I want to do because I have to help her out or do something with her that she likes which may not be my cup of tea but what I'm doing makes her happy and her being happy makes me happy. Your thinking is very elementary on this subject. You don't seem to understand it very well. This whole "purposefully doing things that makes one unhappy" is a very shaky argument. People don't stay with people "on purpose". You think married people who have been together for 40+ years didn't know what they were swearing to each other? People stay together because they want to. Even if the marriage goes through a slow period where the spark seems to have died out. Suppose a wife isn't in the mood to have sex for a period of about 3 months, but the man's sex drive is real high. He's unhappy with his situation. Going by your logic should he file for a divorce then [move on]? Why do you think people use the term "settle down" when they talk about marriage? One should try and live happily? One of the happiest days of my life ever will be my wedding day and the years after that I spend with my wife.

There was a forumer here by the name of FrancisZ. Ask him about this stuff.
Evo
#27
Nov5-11, 09:27 PM
Mentor
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P: 26,444
Thread closed due to bickering.


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