Calculate Force/Pressure of Inflating Balloon

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the force or pressure exerted by a rubber balloon on the gas inside it as the balloon is inflated. Participants explore both theoretical approaches and experimental considerations related to the relationship between the balloon's stretch and the resulting force or pressure changes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a theoretical calculation of the force or pressure exerted by the balloon as its volume is increased, indicating an experimental approach is also being pursued.
  • Another participant references the ideal gas law to establish a relationship between pressure and volume, suggesting that controlling variables is essential for accurate experimental results.
  • A participant clarifies their inquiry by proposing a formula relating the internal pressure to the external pressure and the force exerted by the balloon, questioning whether this force is proportional to the area of stretch.
  • One participant suggests using Hooke's law to model the force exerted by the rubber, providing a mathematical formulation that incorporates the balloon's geometry and stretch.
  • Another participant notes that the tension versus stretch relationship for rubber is not linear and provides a resource for further information on typical latex rubber behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Hooke's law to the balloon's behavior, with some suggesting it may not hold true due to the non-linear nature of rubber. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best theoretical model to apply.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the balloon's material properties and the need for empirical validation of theoretical models. The discussion includes assumptions about the balloon's shape and the nature of the material, which may affect the outcomes.

alexbib
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let's say a rubber balloon is not streched (but almost) when its volume is 1L. what force (or pressure) does the balloon exert on a gas inside it when its volume is stretched by xL? I'm measuring this experimentally, but I'd like to know a theoretical way of calculating it.
 
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The ideal gas law states that:
[tex]PV=nRT[/tex]
where [itex]n[/itex] is amount of gas in moles, [itex]T[/itex] is the kelvin temperature, and [itex]R[/itex] is the universal gas constant. Define initial pressure as [itex]P_{1}[/itex], and establish a relationship between volume and pressure when amount of gas and temperature are held constant.

Note: think about how to control these variables effectively when you conduct the experiment for best results.
 
yes, that is not what I was asking. Maybe I misexpressed myself. Let me reformulate. P-inside=P-outside + F-balloon/area. I'm looking to predict what the force exerted by the balloon on the gas will be when the fabric is stretched by a certain amount. I know how to measure it experimentally (as you said, we can use the gas law to do this), but I'm looking for a theoretical answer: is the force exerted by the fabric proportional to the area it's been stretched by?
 
come on, don't tell me nobody knows
 
I could have a go using Hooke's law which states that the force the rubber exerts is proportinal to the elongation: [itex]F=C \Delta x[/itex]. This constant C you can ofcourse easily measure, and at the same time check if your balloon indeed obeys Hooke's law!


Let's also make the assumption the balloon is approximately spherical with a radius [itex]r[/itex] when it is unstretched. and r' if you inflate it a little bit. Now if you draw a small circle on it with an angle [itex]\delta \theta[/itex] from the center of the balloon to the side of the circle the circumference is [itex]r \delta \theta[/itex]. The elongation is in this case the extension of the circumference:

[tex]\Delta x = 2 \pi (r'-r)[/tex]

And the force is thus:

[itex]F=C 2 \pi (r'-r)[/itex]

If you would like to calculate the pressure you only take the part of this force in the radial direction. which amounts to multipying by [itex]\delta \theta[/itex]. And ofcourse pressure is the force per unit area and you have to divide by [itex]\pi (r \delta \theta)^2[/itex]:

[tex]p(r')=2C\frac{r'-r}{r^2}[/tex]
 
The tension versus stretch isn't linear for rubber, I don't have the formula for this, but I have a link to a site concerning the stretch for typical latex rubber used to launch radio control gliders:

http://www.hollyday.com/rich/hd/sailplanes/rubberdata.htm
 
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