What is a slave?


by jammieg
Tags: slave
jammieg
#1
Dec22-04, 10:33 AM
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What is a slave? How would you define what it means to be a slave, is there some general principle to it? Are there degrees of slavery? Is slavery right or wrong? Does anyone know they are a slave when they are one? Why is it sometimes difficult to see when people are slaves throughout history and today?
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selfAdjoint
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#2
Dec22-04, 10:53 AM
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Good question. There have been various definitions of slavery, and in my opinion what a slave is involves our understanding of what a human is. If our understanding of humanity depends on a notion of radical freeness, such as existentialism, then our ideas of when a given condition constitutes slavery will differ from someone, like the ancient greeks, who thought of humans as essentailly limited and bound in societies. So if one society conquered another, there was no problem about enslaving the losers.
russ_watters
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#3
Dec22-04, 01:24 PM
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Well, start with physical slavery: complete physical control over another human's life.

loseyourname
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#4
Dec23-04, 11:34 PM
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What is a slave?


I'll go with this definition: A person that is the legal property of another person.
selfAdjoint
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#5
Jan3-05, 03:16 PM
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Quote Quote by loseyourname
I'll go with this definition: A person that is the legal property of another person.
That is one particular kind of slavery, called chattel slavery. It was the form practiced in the early US, but it is not the only kind in hisotry.

There were people who were slaves of a whole community, such as the Helots of the Spartans. And there were serfs, who were bound to a piece of land; they did not technically belong as people to the owner of the land, but in practice the distinction was meaningless.

In the law of the ancient Israelites, a slave was only temporary, unlike genuine property. Every seven years they were supposed to be freed. People who kept slaves worked out loopholes around the law, but the status remained as the law had it.
0TheSwerve0
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#6
Jan3-05, 07:54 PM
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In the law of the ancient Israelites, a slave was only temporary, unlike genuine property. Every seven years they were supposed to be freed. People who kept slaves worked out loopholes around the law, but the status remained as the law had it.[/QUOTE]

Indentured servant right?

From wikipedia:

An Indentured servant is an unfree labourer under contract to work (for a specified amount of time) for another person, often without any pay, but in exchange for accommodation, food, other essentials and/or free passage to a new country. After working for a number of years they were free to farm or take up trade of their own.


Indentured servitude was a form of contract labor, usually of a forced nature. One had to give up one's personal freedom for a specified period of time. In some cases it was called "white servitude," but contract labor was not limited just to white European immigrants. People of every race and ethnicity have some history with this form of labor. Many economic historians have written about the incentive compatibility structure, including David Galenson, Farley Grubb, and Abbot Smith.
selfAdjoint
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#7
Jan4-05, 09:21 AM
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Quote Quote by 0TheSwerve0
Indentured servant right?
Well English translations of the Bible say "slave". It wasn't a seven year term of service for the individual; rather every seven years ALL the slaves were freed and they started all over again. So if you bought a slave in year 6 of the cycle, you could only get a years work out of her (in theory; as I said above the slave owners had workarounds that violated the spirit but met the letter of the law).
sheepdog
#8
Jan4-05, 10:16 AM
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Quote Quote by jammieg
What is a slave? How would you define what it means to be a slave, is there some general principle to it? Are there degrees of slavery? Is slavery right or wrong? Does anyone know they are a slave when they are one? Why is it sometimes difficult to see when people are slaves throughout history and today?
A slave is someone, or some animal, or some life form, that is not free. Now what is it to be free?
Problem+Solve=Reason
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#9
Jan4-05, 10:24 AM
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I would say a slave is a perosn that is oppressed to a degree in which almost all that that person may Will can not be done. Just as one could say our souls are sometimes slaves to this world, the same could be said for a human body being a slave to other humans that are in direct/indirect contact with that individual.
If one thinks about that long enough, you can start to see slaves of today. For instance: prisoners. It doesn't matter whether we think they deserve it or not, they are, in my opinion, slaves.

----- nwO ruoY evaH ,deeN oN <----?eeS I tahW eeS uoY oD
dekoi
#10
Jan4-05, 03:47 PM
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Quote Quote by jammieg
What is a slave?
A slave is one who has limited will as compared to a 'free' person.
Problem+Solve=Reason
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#11
Jan4-05, 03:54 PM
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Dig deeper. Its better to be in a submarine than a wave runner when it comes to philosophy.

----- nwO ruoY evaH ,deeN oN <----?eeS I tahW eeS uoY oD
Justinius
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#12
Jan4-05, 04:39 PM
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Quote Quote by dekoi
A slave is one who has limited will as compared to a 'free' person.
I agree...

We become slaves to everything when we limit our freedom of everything. Literally, a slave is not free, i.e. the blacks in the south United States. However, we do not examine the freedoms we take away from ourselves thus making ourselves slaves.

For example, we are free to dress in whatever way we want. We limit this freedom by having "fashion" and various trends passing through fashion. We enslave ourselves to the big designers who make us walking billboards for their clothing lines.

When looking at "what is a slave" we have to be careful, because we sometimes forget the slavery we as a society put ourselves through.
Problem+Solve=Reason
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#13
Jan4-05, 05:36 PM
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I dont think that makes complete scence. What is truely free then? Even if we had no laws nor fashion nor anything limiting of taht nature, we would still have to say a certain word for one to understand what we are trying to say. This world is goverened by laws, if I understand what u are saying, you probebly believe that it is impossible to be completely free.

----- nwO ruoY evaH ,deeN oN <----?eeS I tahW eeS uoY oD
sheepdog
#14
Jan4-05, 10:56 PM
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Quote Quote by Justinius
We become slaves to everything when we limit our freedom of everything.
It sounds as if you are saying that a person can choose to make himself a slave. I don't think that is true. As long as it is his choice he is still free to choose and therefore free. Slavery implies the absence of freedom (absolutely or by degree, to be decided). But one who is free to choose slavery or freedom at will is at that moment not in slavery no matter what his physical state.

The question is, "What is freedom?" because its absence is slavery. Slavery can only be understood when freedom is understood. What you cannot perceive cannot be perceived to be absent either.
jammieg
#15
Jan4-05, 11:53 PM
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Seems like a good principle to work with Dekoi.
That's a good point can a person knowingly be a slave? I mean can someone choose to remain unfairly restricted in will and still be considered a slave?
selfAdjoint
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#16
Jan5-05, 09:55 AM
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Quote Quote by jammieg
Seems like a good principle to work with Dekoi.
That's a good point can a person knowingly be a slave? I mean can someone choose to remain unfairly restricted in will and still be considered a slave?
You mean freely choose? I don't mean to get into quibbles about free will; I just mean socially free, so that the individual won't be punished if she chooses "wrong". I think that most people generally do freely accept limited behavior ranges; this is what is usually called socialization, and is basic to law systems, to family life and to work. Somewhere in our teens or twenties most of us shrug and decide not to "kick against the pricks" as the poet said. Only a few remain truly free: outsiders, street people, and hermits.
sid_galt
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#17
Jan5-05, 11:52 AM
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What about this one?

Slavery is involuntary servitude.

A person whose effort or property is forcefully taken from him for an individual or a group of individuals is serving the individual or the group of individuals.
Since force is being used, the person is serving involuntarily.

Therefore, IMO, the definition of slavery should be something like:
A person whose effort or property is forcefully taken from him for an individual or a group of individuals is a slave to those people.
jammieg
#18
Jan5-05, 02:02 PM
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I'm not sure what I mean I'm still trying to comprehend slavery.


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