H+ concentration gradient Photosynthesis

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms involved in maintaining the H+ concentration gradient across the thylakoid membrane during the light-dependent reactions of photosynthesis. Participants explore the roles of photolysis, electron transport, and ATP synthesis in this process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Gary questions how the transport of electrons contributes to the maintenance of the H+ concentration gradient, understanding photolysis and NADPH formation but seeking clarification on electron transport.
  • One participant suggests that the cytochrome b6/f complex pumps H+ across the thylakoid membrane during electron transport.
  • Another participant draws a parallel between this process and cyclic phosphorylation, suggesting that energy from electrons is used to pump H+ across the thylakoid membrane.
  • A participant expresses skepticism about the evolutionary advantage of pumping H+ into the lumen, questioning why the energy cannot be used directly to synthesize ATP instead.
  • It is noted that energy from electrons is indeed used to pump H+ out, and ATP synthesis occurs as H+ diffuse back across the membrane.
  • Gary and others inquire why energy from electrons cannot be directly utilized for ATP synthesis, leading to a clarification that ATP synthase requires a proton gradient to function.
  • A later reply reiterates that energy must be transferred through a series of steps involving photons, electrons, and the H+ gradient before ATP can be synthesized.
  • Gary acknowledges understanding the necessity of the H+ gradient due to the structure of ATP synthase.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of understanding regarding the mechanisms of H+ pumping and ATP synthesis, with some agreeing on the necessity of the H+ gradient while others question the efficiency of the process. The discussion remains unresolved on the evolutionary rationale behind these mechanisms.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the direct use of electron energy for ATP synthesis and the evolutionary implications of the established processes. There is also a lack of consensus on the efficiency and necessity of the H+ pumping mechanism.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying photosynthesis, plant biology, or biochemistry, particularly in understanding the complexities of energy transfer and ATP synthesis in chloroplasts.

garytse86
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FOr the light dependent reaction, In the textbook it says that the H+ concentration gradient across the thylakoid membrane is maintained by:

1) photolysis
2) transport of electrons from photosystem II along carriers
3) formation of NADPH.

I can understand 1) and 3), but I have no idea how transport of e- would maintain a hydrogen ion concentration gradient. Can someone help please?

THanks.

Gary
 
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Does this statement help:

The cytochrome b6/f complex acts to pump H+ across the thylakoid during electron transport
 
so this is exactly the same as cyclic phosphorylation then? energy from e- is used to pump H+ across thylakoid membrane?
 
but it seems silly for plants to have evolved such mechanisms.
Why pump the hydrogen into the lumen, and when they diffuse out along the electrochemical gradient the energy is used to synthesise ATP. Why go through this process, why can't the energy just be used to synthesise ATP in the first place?
 
Energy for e- is used to pump H+ out. ATP is synthesis due to that process, which is why H+ are pump out.

Look at the figure
http://bio.winona.msus.edu/bates/Bio241/images/figure-08-12-1.jpg
 
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why go through H+? why can't the energy from the electrons be directly used to synthesise ATP?
 
There is no mechanism to do it directly. ATP synthase is powered by the proton gradient. The only way to make ATP is to use the enzyme ATP synthase, because of the structure of the ATP. Energy has to be transferred from photons to electrons to the H+ gradient, then to ATP.
 
nipwoni said:
There is no mechanism to do it directly. ATP synthase is powered by the proton gradient. The only way to make ATP is to use the enzyme ATP synthase, because of the structure of the ATP. Energy has to be transferred from photons to electrons to the H+ gradient, then to ATP.
oh now i get it. It is because of the structure of the enzyme which needs a H+ gradient.


Many thanks to all of you.

Gary
 

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