Are Logical Rules Universally Applicable?

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In summary, the conversation is about the basis of logic and whether it can be justified or is simply accepted as a matter of faith or personal preference. The participants discuss the possibility of parallel universes and whether their physics laws would obey the same logical rules as our universe. They also consider the origin of logic and whether it is based on an unjustifiable hypothesis or if we can be sure about its reliability in this and other universes. The idea of self-consistency as a primary fact that defines what is logical is also brought up. The conversation ends with the question of whether it is possible to accept the existence of illogical things while still being a rational person, and whether this would imply that logic is not universal.
  • #36
aperion said:
We can construct a model of organic logic.
So, could we put this model into a program/computer? Would this enable computers to become self-aware? If not, what is that which a computer lacks to be self-aware since it has almost perfect logic and memory? Also, how could we make a computer/robot to really feel (like humans and all living organisms do) and not just pretend to feel?

aperion said:
In the 1960s and 1970s, science got quite close to doing so again with systems science, hierarchy theory, ecology.
How far are we today in this field?
 
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  • #37
Boy@n said:
So, could we put this model into a program/computer? Would this enable computers to become self-aware? If not, what is that which a computer lacks to be self-aware since it has almost perfect logic and memory? Also, how could we make a computer/robot to really feel (like humans and all living organisms do) and not just pretend to feel?

There are too many levels to this question to answer simply. Are we talking implementing in hardware or emulating in software, are we talking models or simulations, etc.

But if we are talking about mind science approaches that are based on the essential principles, then generative neural networks in the style of Stephen Grossberg are my idea of what has been closest.

However I wouldn't hold my breath for artificial intelligence. It is so easy to grow real intelligence, why would you even bother anyway? People are cheap to make.

Boy@n said:
How far are we today in this field?

I think it says something that all the people who seem to understand the best are in their 70s and emeritus now.

But there is some good new maths tools being developed such as scalefree networks and new approaches to entropy.

It is an interesting question. It could be said systems science really took off in the 1960s because of the idea of cybernetic feedback and its direct technical application in things like missile guidance systems. There is nothing like a good military application to make science immediately credible.

So if say neural networks were to suddenly take off (because Turing computation was running out of steam) then a more complex systems approach to logic might also take off. But regular computers are still on their Moore's curve of development. So there is nothing actually driving people to think about the world differently at the moment.
 

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