Are Subaru Boxer engines prone to head-gasket issues and high repair costs?

[turbo]

I thought I had gone through as much research as possible to justify our purchase of a 2002 Legacy. Earlier models had experienced some problems with head-gaskets, but it seems that Subaru had addressed them.

Unfortunately, last week we found out that our Legacy has a leaking head-gasket. I negotiated with Subaru of America and took the car to the dealership. SOA agreed to pay a portion of the repair charge, although the car is slightly out of warranty with respect to mileage. Unfortunately, Maine's liberal use of salt on winter roads has rotted the body and flange of the catalytic converter, so, I'll have to pay another $650 for that. That brings the repair cost to a little over $1300. An independent (and well-respected) local mechanic told me that the last Subaru head-gasket replacement job he did cost the owner $1800. So that took a bit of the sting out.

Boxer engines are very nice in a lot of ways, including center-of-gravity and handling issues, but when you blow a head-gasket, the entire engine has to be removed to replace them.

 

[ShawnD]

Boxer engines are very nice in a lot of ways, including center-of-gravity and handling issues, but when you blow a head-gasket, the entire engine has to be removed to replace them.

Yep that's pretty sucky to the max, but it's worth it. I can't even tell you how many times I've seen cars almost get creamed because they start making a left turn, 1 tire spins, and oncoming traffic needs to come to almost a complete stop to prevent a collision. My sucky 0.5 wheel drive car (open differential) has winter tires and it still is a death trap compared to my friend's subaru with regular all season tires.

In the end, paying a mechanic to fix a car is cheaper than paying a doctor to fix you

 

[turbo]

Yep that's pretty sucky to the max, but it's worth it. I can't even tell you how many times I've seen cars almost get creamed because they start making a left turn, 1 tire spins, and oncoming traffic needs to come to almost a complete stop to prevent a collision. My sucky 0.5 wheel drive car (open differential) has winter tires and it still is a death trap compared to my friend's subaru with regular all season tires.

In the end, paying a mechanic to fix a car is cheaper than paying a doctor to fix you

So true. Winter is coming on and my wife wants her Legacy back NOW! What if the repair lasts only 2 years? ~$50/month for a safe vehicle for her to get to work? That's OK by me.

 

[lisab]

I've lost a Soobie to a leaky head gasket too . But it had over 100K miles. I've had several since then, I love them.

 

[turbo]

I've lost a Soobie to a leaky head gasket too . But it had over 100K miles. I've had several since then, I love them.

With studded snow-tires, they feel like they're riding on rails. I have an '09 Forester, but my wife prefers her standard-shift Legacy. She doesn't shovel herself out of our driveway on winter mornings - she just plows through the snowbank, dragging the undercarriage all the way. She always gets to work, after or during any blizzard.

 

[hamster143]

You have a 9 year old car and it is "slightly out of warranty with respect to mileage"?? what's wrong with that picture?

BTW, I don't know about head gasket, but a replacement catalytic converter for the Legacy could be had for about $200 + shipping&tax, and I'm led to believe that replacing it is a fairly straightforward job.

 

[turbo]

You have a 9 year old car and it is "slightly out of warranty with respect to mileage"?? what's wrong with that picture?

Subaru will honor 100,000 mile warranty claims on some problem areas. The car is just a bit over 100,500 miles. My wife uses it to go back and forth to work and to do shopping, etc. The car has had a very good life and should last a long time longer (crossing the fingers, here).

 

[Gokul43201]

I'm in the early stages of thinking about springing for a used Outback Wagon. My budget is in the vicinity of $4K, so that limits me to something 10yrs or so old.

Turbo, Lisa, others: any warnings, suggestions?

 

[turbo]

I'm in the early stages of thinking about springing for a used Outback Wagon. My budget is in the vicinity of $4K, so that limits me to something 10yrs or so old.

Turbo, Lisa, others: any warnings, suggestions?

Stay at or above 2003 if you can. Some of the Legacy/Outback engines from 2002 and earlier have had more of the head-gasket problems. I thought 2002 was an OK time-line, but that wasn't a realistic view apparently

 

[lisab]

Stay at or above 2003 if you can. Some of the Legacy/Outback engines from 2002 and earlier have had more of the head-gasket problems. I thought 2002 was an OK time-line, but that wasn't a realistic view apparently

I second that, the one of mine that blew was a 98 or 99. Haven't seen head gasket problems since that one.

Also...I'm not thrilled about the turbos (sorry turbo haha). Last summer we had one come apart, and it ruined the engine. They said it had run low on oil, but it wasn't low about a week before it blew.

I guess my advice would be: if you get a turbo, keep a close eye on the oil.

 

[FlexGunship]

Proud owner of a 2005 STi with 115k miles. Nothing but meticulous maintenance. It still drinks the blood of the innocent on the dyno and at the track.

I guess my advice would be: if you get a turbo, keep a close eye on the oil.

I've been on full synthetic since the day I got the car. Subies with turbos eat about a quart every 1500 miles. I change every 3000 and add a quart in the middle.

 

[lisab]

Proud owner of a 2005 STi with 115k miles. Nothing but meticulous maintenance. It still drinks the blood of the innocent on the dyno and at the track.



I've been on full synthetic since the day I got the car. Subies with turbos eat about a quart every 1500 miles. I change every 3000 and add a quart in the middle.

aaaaaahhh STi...oh wow...:!)

I had a 2004 WRX, and I have no idea what I was thinking when I sold it .

 

[FlexGunship]

aaaaaahhh STi...oh wow...:!)

I used it to safely secure a 2nd place finish in my class in the SCCNH this year. My friend with a silly old 2002 WRX won 1st... grr... imagine how angry I am.

 

[dlgoff]

Turbo has been trying to get me to buy a Subaru for a couple of years now. With my limited income now, I'll have to stick with my old buick. It has 235Kmiles now and has paid for itself many years over. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for another couple of years.

 

[lisab]

I used it to safely secure a 2nd place finish in my class in the SCCNH this year. My friend with a silly old 2002 WRX won 1st... grr... imagine how angry I am.

But was it stock? Because they can be altered, you know .

 

[FlexGunship]

I used it to safely secure a 2nd place finish in my class in the SCCNH this year. My friend with a silly old 2002 WRX won 1st... grr... imagine how angry I am.

Source: http://sccnh.org/autox/AutoX2010Points.htm

 

[FlexGunship]

But was it stock? Because they can be altered, you know .

Naw, he's got a lot of money into it. Frankly, I think it was his 2nd gear; its nice and long in his 5speed. I have a 6speed and was always banging between 2nd and 3rd.

I've got KW V3 coilovers, ERZ catted downpipe, Strommung catback, custom tune @20psi, Whiteline front strut brace, and Hawk HPS pads on Brembo calipers. But the most important was the Direzza Star Spec tires. Tires cannot be over valued.

My friend Craig had BR coilovers, Blitz non-catted exhaust, custom tune, larger top mount intercooler, same tires, and a few other things.

Also, he's a really good driver, I just had to admit it.

EDIT: We both run in the "modified" class.

 

[Dembadon]

I'm in the early stages of thinking about springing for a used Outback Wagon. My budget is in the vicinity of $4K, so that limits me to something 10yrs or so old.

Turbo, Lisa, others: any warnings, suggestions?

My wife drives a '00 Outback 2.5L Wagon, and I drive a '98 Legacy 2.5L GT Sedan. Both cars have been rock-solid through some tough winters here in the mountains. Where I live, the oldest vehicles I see on the roads are Toyotas and Soobies. My brother-in-law is still driving around in his '89 Subaru wagon!

Warnings? As others have mentioned: the head gasket. Our outback had been taken in before we bought it for this reason. I've kept a close eye on the coolant and oil levels so as not to let it run hot. It's been fine for 6 years.

Suggestions? Do you live in an area that gets snow during the winter? Our wagon handles better than the sedan in the snow. Possibly due to the longer wheelbase? I use the same tires on both vehicles; studded Michelin Winterforce tires (I don't think they sell these anymore) for the winter season, and Michelin all-seasons for the spring and summer. As turbo said, they handle like a dream with good tires.

 

[turbo]

Damage wasn't too bad. After tax, the repair cost ~1550. The catalytic converter added a lot to the total, and while they had the engine torn down, I asked them to change the timing belt, too. No labor charge, that way.

 

[Gokul43201]

Thanks all, for the feedback - some good points to keep in mind, but mostly this is making me just want to stick it out with my '92 Accord, which still gives me 29mpg average, but is starting to come apart mechanically, and the heater core has a partial plug, making for some coldish driving in the winter.

Demb: yes I get a lot of snow here in the winter, and I'm an outdoors enthusiast ... all of which makes a Soob so tempting.

 

[turbo]

Thanks all, for the feedback - some good points to keep in mind, but mostly this is making me just want to stick it out with my '92 Accord, which still gives me 29mpg average, but is starting to come apart mechanically, and the heater core has a partial plug, making for some coldish driving in the winter.

I don't know about earlier Foresters, but my '09 automatic gets 27 mpg in a mix of in-town and highway driving. Pretty good fuel economy for an SUV. The way the seats fold down, you can configure the cargo-area in ways that are pretty flexible. You can fit a lot of gear in there for camping trips, fishing trips, etc. I picked the automatic transmission because I have arthritis in my knees and clutching during in-town driving can be a pain. I'm assuming that the fuel economy of a standard would be measurably better.

 

[turbo]

Naw, he's got a lot of money into it. Frankly, I think it was his 2nd gear; its nice and long in his 5speed. I have a 6speed and was always banging between 2nd and 3rd.

That can be a big deal. I had a pretty souped-up Harley Wide-Glide with a 4-speed transmission, and I could out-run most of newer Harleys with 5-speeds. I tuned and tweaked that engine to take advantage of that leggy transmission.

 

[rhody]

I'm in the early stages of thinking about springing for a used Outback Wagon. My budget is in the vicinity of $4K, so that limits me to something 10yrs or so old.

Turbo, Lisa, others: any warnings, suggestions?

Gokul,

Just had two friends buy almost identical Saab 9000S turbo grey station wagons loaded, 2002, 2004, price ranges: 4.2 - 6.5K and they are really nice. Around 100K miles, just broken in for Saab's, one was from a private sale, the other was from an online broker, EBayMotors.com and had good luck with the owner, and he gets a limited one year warranty by going through e-Bay for a small fee, so it's a win/win situation. This is my friend's second vehicle purchased through eBayMotors too.

If Saab's are not your thing then keep on the Subaru track, but they get good mileage, mid 20's, peppy with the turbo, and are great in the snow. Something to consider. Hope you find something that suits you.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

One caveat re Saabs. The company is not well-positioned to ride out the dip in the US market, and they have a really bad reputation among mechanics for their quirky non-intuitive engineering.

 

[rhody]

One caveat re Saabs. The company is not well-positioned to ride out the dip in the US market, and they have a really bad reputation among mechanics for their quirky non-intuitive engineering.

Agreed,

But my two friend's swear by them, one has a former Saab master mechanic who works on his the other uses a dealer. Saab's are not for me either, but in that price range, you can get a really nice wagon (loaded) at a decent price. One of my friends actually likes all the dash gadgetry, although it is not my cup of tea, and you are right, as the car ages, some of those gizmo's stop working.

Rhody...

 

[Gokul43201]

Thanks for the pointer rhody - I'll do some reading up on the Saabs and on eBay Motors.

 

[Borek]

in-town and highway

What do you call "a town"?

 

[chaoseverlasting]

Proud owner of a 2005 STi with 115k miles. Nothing but meticulous maintenance. It still drinks the blood of the innocent on the dyno and at the track.



I've been on full synthetic since the day I got the car. Subies with turbos eat about a quart every 1500 miles. I change every 3000 and add a quart in the middle.

I hate you. I've wanted an Impreza for as long as I can remember. Considering that I haven't even started working yet, its a couple of years away. I just hope the Impreza survives in some form. What with all the hybrid cars and electric cars coming out, God, PLEASE let there be an Impreaza when I can afford it!

 

[turbo]

What do you call "a town"?

Skowhegan, Waterville, Augusta...

Lots of traffic lights in each, so there's plenty of stop-and-go.

 

[Moonbear]

Thanks all, for the feedback - some good points to keep in mind, but mostly this is making me just want to stick it out with my '92 Accord, which still gives me 29mpg average, but is starting to come apart mechanically, and the heater core has a partial plug, making for some coldish driving in the winter.

Demb: yes I get a lot of snow here in the winter, and I'm an outdoors enthusiast ... all of which makes a Soob so tempting.

Subarus are really popular around here. We have winding, mountainous roads with deep ditches instead of guard rails, so having a car that sticks to the road in snow is pretty important here. With a good set of tires, the Subarus will handle pretty much anything but a sheet of pure ice.

The only thing I've been cautioned about the newer models is that they are prone toward wearing the brake rotors. If you're looking at buying used, definitely have the brakes looked at before buying.

I'm very happy with my Impreza. Though, if you're into outdoor activities, you'll probably want something bigger than that for your equipment.

 

[turbo]

Subarus are really popular around here. We have winding, mountainous roads with deep ditches instead of guard rails, so having a car that sticks to the road in snow is pretty important here. With a good set of tires, the Subarus will handle pretty much anything but a sheet of pure ice.

And with heavily studded snow tires, they will handle a sheet of pure ice, too. Then, your main concern is the OTHER guy who thinks that a big 4WD is capable of handling those conditions. Defensive driving is especially important when sharing the road with idiots.

 

[turbo]

I should mention that my wife is overjoyed at getting her '02 Legacy sedan back and healthy. She didn't like driving my old Nissan 4x4 or even my '09 Forester to work. She wanted her Legacy. I have to agree that it feels "nailed" to the road. When I was driving it back from the dealership, I took tight exit and entrance ramps at a higher rate of speed than I would have, if I had been driving the Forester. That little sedan is very solid and confidence-inspiring.

 

[Allenspark]

I am on my 5th suby. I have had very few issues, and no major mechanical issues with any of them. Here in the mountains of Colorado there pretty much standard equipment. I have owned other AWD vehicles and they do not compare to the good ole suby in adverse weather conditions. My 2009 forester is sitting on a 30 mpg average when its advertised as 27 :). I live at 9000' with a 36 mile commute down a canyon that drops a mile vertically. I am hard on my subys.

 

[ShawnD]

I have owned other AWD vehicles and they do not compare to the good ole suby in adverse weather conditions. My 2009 forester is sitting on a 30 mpg average when its advertised as 27 :). I live at 9000' with a 36 mile commute down a canyon that drops a mile vertically. I am hard on my subys.

The AWD thing as explained by youtube videos and Subaru salesmen is that Subaru's system is always on and it always tries to stay as symmetrical as possible. All of the wheels should be roughly the same speed, and equalizing power is more important than reducing slippage on ice.


The traction control system in my Corolla is actually similar to what those AWD Toyotas in the video are doing. Rather than focusing most of its attention on applying brakes to the tires that slip (which it does), it seems to put a lot of emphasis on cutting the throttle. While that's obviously a good feature for preventing understeer while taking corners, it's bad because cutting the throttle as much as it does means it cripples my acceleration and I'm more likely to get hit when I underestimate how much distance I need when making a turn. A lot of times I intentionally disable the traction control when making a turn because reverting back to a plain old open differential with no computers accelerates faster.

It's also worth mentioning that engine braking is a lot safer in a Subaru because all 4 tires are dragging. Engine braking down a hill in a front wheel drive car in winter is extremely dangerous because it means all of the braking force is on the two front tires. That leaves a sticky situation where you either engine brake and risk losing the ability to steer your car or ride the brakes and need to replace them every month.

 

[Allenspark]

The AWD thing as explained by youtube videos and Subaru salesmen is that Subaru's system is always on and it always tries to stay as symmetrical as possible. All of the wheels should be roughly the same speed, and equalizing power is more important than reducing slippage on ice.


The traction control system in my Corolla is actually similar to what those AWD Toyotas in the video are doing. Rather than focusing most of its attention on applying brakes to the tires that slip (which it does), it seems to put a lot of emphasis on cutting the throttle. While that's obviously a good feature for preventing understeer while taking corners, it's bad because cutting the throttle as much as it does means it cripples my acceleration and I'm more likely to get hit when I underestimate how much distance I need when making a turn. A lot of times I intentionally disable the traction control when making a turn because reverting back to a plain old open differential with no computers accelerates faster.

It's also worth mentioning that engine braking is a lot safer in a Subaru because all 4 tires are dragging. Engine braking down a hill in a front wheel drive car in winter is extremely dangerous because it means all of the braking force is on the two front tires. That leaves a sticky situation where you either engine brake and risk losing the ability to steer your car or ride the brakes and need to replace them every month.

The other AWD vehicles i have owned are a 2006 Rav 4 and a 2008 Volvo S40 T5. Both where nice, but as far as performance on snow and ice they where not as good as the suby. Suby's are a bit rough in the luxury department, but they make up for it in safety and handling in snowy and icy conditions. I am a huge fan of toyota. I plow my property with a tundra, but when it comes to hauling the kids up and down the hill, my suby is employed to do the job. I have had my fair share of suby problems, wheel bearings mostly, some minor electrical issues, etc but the problems have not been severe enough for me to change. My volvo was falling apart at 60k and had more shop time then i was comfortable with.