Beginner Question: Causality & Relativity in Quantum Mechanics

[Joao]

Hi everyone! Sorry for the bad English and the silly question!

My mind isn't very Sharp, so I just want to make sure I understood it right... I've read the faq and I found this info amazing! If I understood correctly hahahaha!

So, there's two main interpretations of the findings of relativity: the block universe, that says that what we call future already exists (and therefore if this thread will be closed by moderation before or after someone reply me is already real, and free will is just an illusion) or Lorentz Ether Theory, that says that's a "ridden magical" frame that is the real stationary one (and in that frame this thread is not already closed, because it has the "real time" or something like that, and future does not "exists " already in that frame).

Also, does anyone knows if the quantum mechanics interpretations takes into account the relativity interpretations? Like, does many worlds theory, Copenhagen interpretation... does any of those considers the findings in relativity?

Again, sorry to ask a question that's in the faq. I just wanted to make it clear, because I find it too wonderful to be true!

Thanks Again!

 

[Dale]

There is a fully relativistic version of quantum mechanics called quantum field theory. The Copenhagen interpretation of QM was developed prior to QFT, and I am not sure if it applies.

 

[Joao]

There is a fully relativistic version of quantum mechanics called quantum field theory. The Copenhagen interpretation of QM was developed prior to QFT, and I am not sure if it applies.

Thanks a lot Dale! Please, can't AFT be understood into the light of Copenhagen, many worlds, etc? Or is it a new interpretation?

Also, is my view about block world and Lorenz ether theory right? (that block world means that past and future already exists and there's no such thing as free will and Lorentz says that's a hidden referential frame and future doesn't exists already)?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Dale]

Please, can't AFT be understood into the light of Copenhagen, many worlds, etc? Or is it a new interpretation?

QFT is not merely a new interpretation, it is a new theory with different math and predictions. It is the relativistic generalization of QM.

Also, is my view about block world and Lorenz ether theory right? (that block world means that past and future already exists and there's no such thing as free will and Lorentz says that's a hidden referential frame and future doesn't exists already)?

The problem with answering such questions is that they are poorly framed. How do you define “already” in terms of the block universe? As to free will, I don’t know of any physics definition of free will that can be applied to answer the question. What measurement or experiment could tell if free will exists?

 

[Joao]

QFT is not merely a new interpretation, it is a new theory with different math and predictions. It is the relativistic generalization of QM.

Thanks a lot Dale! =)

The problem with answering such questions is that they are poorly framed. How do you define “already” in terms of the block universe? As to free will, I don’t know of any physics definition of free will that can be applied to answer the question. What measurement or experiment could tell if free will exists?

Thanks again Dale! In principle, I guess it's impossible to do such experiment. What I mean is: I'm not sure right now what I will eat in 2 hours: Arabian food or Mexican food. In block universe, is the act of me eating one of those coexisting with me wondering where I'm going to choose to eat?

Thanks again! =)

 

[PeterDonis]

In block universe, is the act of me eating one of those coexisting with me wondering where I'm going to choose to eat?

No, because your wondering is taking place now, but the eating is going to take place 2 hours from now.

 

[Dale]

In block universe, is the act of me eating one of those coexisting with me wondering where I'm going to choose to eat?

In the block universe both of those events are equally real. There is no frame in which they are simultaneous.

 

[Ibix]

So, there's two main interpretations of the findings of relativity: the block universe, that says that what we call future already exists (and therefore if this thread will be closed by moderation before or after someone reply me is already real, and free will is just an illusion) or Lorentz Ether Theory, that says that's a "ridden magical" frame that is the real stationary one (and in that frame this thread is not already closed, because it has the "real time" or something like that, and future does not "exists " already in that frame).

Loosely speaking, the block universe is like taking each frame of a film (an old-style celluloid one) and stacking the frames on top of each other. Time (in the film) is a direction in the resulting block of celluloid, very much like the spatial directions in each frame. Lorentz ether theory is like (our experience of) the movie on a screen. Time is something very different from the spatial directions in the screen.

It's problematic to talk of the future "already existing", even in the block universe. Think of the stack of images. "Now" is everything in the plane of an image, while the future, for any given frame, is above it. Saying "the future already exists now" is like saying "points above this frame are at the same height as this frame". Clearly silly, when phrased like that.

Basically, the distinction is whether you regard time as a direction in spacetime (the block universe) or as something fundamentally different from space (Lorentz Ether Theory). Trying to phrase it in ordinary tenses doesn't really work.

 

[Joao]

No, because your wondering is taking place now, but the eating is going to take place 2 hours from now.

Thanks a lot Peter! =) very straightforward! Really thanks!

In the block universe both of those events are equally real. There is no frame in which they are simultaneous.

Thanks again Dale! That's what I understood! =) I'm very happy to hear it, I guess I've got the idea! =)

Time (in the film) is a direction in the resulting block of celluloid, very much like the spatial directions in each frame. Lorentz ether theory is like (our experience of) the movie on a screen. Time is something very different fro

Thanks a lot for the answer! Very well explained! I'll have to think about it for a while to try to get it right...

Saying "the future already exists now" is like saying "points above this frame are at the same height as this frame". Clearly silly, when phrased like that.

Great example! Really makes no sense saying: all the points above this point are at the same height as this point! But it makes perfect sense to say: all the points above this height are equally real.

Basically, the distinction is whether you regard time as a direction in spacetime (the block universe) or as something fundamentally different from space (Lorentz Ether Theory).

I will try to learn more about the Lorentz theory! Thanks a lot! I guess I kind of got the block universe right! =)
Dear friends, I guess that, to make predictions and technology, the maths and formulas are enough. But addressing the human need to make sense of the universe, don't you think that, if it's equally real that in one time I'm eating Mexican food, in other time I'm in my job, and both are perfectly real, doesn't it means that I really have no choice but to eat in the Mexican restaurant? Even if I'm in doubt of were I'm going to eat, since tomorrow 13:30 is as real as right now, I MUST eat in the Mexican?

Maybe our idea of freedom of choice is just an illusion, like a psychiatric Pacient that's fully convinced that the Nazis are hunting him down, but as a matter of fact there is no such thing.

Thanks again! =)

 

[Dale]

I am sorry, but there is no point in discussing free will or choice on this forum until there is a scientific measurement procedure specified. If you can find a professional scientific reference which describes a technique for measuring free will or choice then we can discuss it in the context of that measurement procedure.

The thread is closed until then.