Big Blast, Mushroom Cloud Reported in N.Korea

[polyb]

Here are the reports on the wire:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=4&u=/ap/20040912/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_explosion

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=4&u=/ap/20040912/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_explosion

Thoughts? Ideas? Anything?

I guess GW can strike N. Korea off the axis of evil list now!

 

[Gokul43201]

I'm looking for some specific info right now, but seems no one (who'll talk) has any idea what happened.

 

[polyb]

Apparently it happened 3 days ago and there is no confirmation as to the source of said event, nucaleare :rofl: or otherwise. If the reports are correct though, it does seem close enough to be nucaleare :rofl: . Horeshoes and hand grenades! I wonder how the ROVER will spin this one?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

CNN: Not a nuclear explosion.

 

[Tsu]

This is from CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/12/nkorea.blast/

 

[Smurf]

So? CNN also said the killer bees were coming and our Society was going to fall into 'mass chaos and confusion' at the year 2000.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Killer bees are here. Society is in mass chaos and confusion.

 

[Smurf]

Right. Good Point. :tongue2:

I just had the impression it would be a little more so.

 

[polyb]

Society is inherently a chaotic system, so maybe cnn consulted someone before that report. Talk about CYA:tongue2: ! I still don't see how killer bees could be some causal event to mahem and destruction.

Who knows, maybe little kim is really trying to get into the club! If this turns out to be true, how long will the Iranians hold off so they could evade the rath of Sharon?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

More: Not quite so clear cut it seems.

The New York Times reported in its Sunday editions the Bush administration had received recent intelligence reports that some experts believed could indicate North Korea was preparing to conduct its first nuclear weapons test explosion.

But in Washington, U.S. officials said there was no definitive explanation yet, although the blast did not appear to be nuclear. A test would alter the stakes in the North's standoff with the United States over Pyongyang's atomic ambitions.

"We've got no indication that anything of the sort has happened. We believe these reports to be completely unfounded," said a State Department official who asked not to be named.

"People are pretty sure it's not a mushroom cloud and not a test of any kind," the official said. [continued]

http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6211261

 

[polyb]

It would be quite embarrassing to this administration if it was a test. Though that should not be a difficulty in terms of damage control for rover and crew. I'm still waiting for them to tell me that the world is flat(though this would be true in a GR sense!).

 

[Gokul43201]

More: Not quite so clear cut it seems.

Yeah, perhaps tomorrow, we'll hear more definitive news.

 

[Tsu]

...yes, that will give it one more day to get even more twisted...

 

[Dissident Dan]

This is from CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/12/nkorea.blast/

The U.S. official said the cloud could be the result of a forest fire.

Somehow, I don't trust that source...

 

[Gokul43201]

The forest fire thing sounds too much like swamp gas from a weather balloon refracting the light from venus.

 

[Adam]

The amazingly credible Powell comforting the American people with swamp gas...

 

[Atrayo]

Hi All,

Let me add my 2 cents to this discussion no matter how disturbing i may suggest it has become. Including putting other events into focus and context.

The New York Times reported on Saturday that U.S. President George W. Bush and his top advisers recently received intelligence reports that could indicate North Korea is preparing its first nuclear test, citing senior officials with access to the intelligence. ---CNN 9/12/04.

Link

With that quoted, perhaps the North Korean's upped their timetable for a nuclear test. Due to the recent revelation of South Korea dabbling in nuclear material themselves. Much like when President Clinton was in office that both India & Pakistan did back to back nuclear bomb tests underground, as their form of saber rattling.

But, why would North Korea set off a nuclear bomb test above ground level? The fallout reprecussions on themselves and the region including China would piss off everyone.

I also say that it was a "Nuclear Explosion" that took place. Due to these variables, when have we ever seen Napalm and other military munitions including bombs explode in a mushroom cloud formation? I don't recall that at all, the radius of the explosion has been stated to be felt and seen from both China and South Korea. The other explosion before this one at North Korea at a railway industrial area didn't have the signature mushroom cloud as a explosive accident. (meaning it was a non-nuclear explosion)

Yonhap reported the explosion happened in Yanggang province along the Chinese border, the site of Yongjori Missile Base -- a large facility with an underground missile firing range.

According to data gathered by Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI), Yongjori is a suspected site for North Korea's uranium enrichment program. ---CNN 9/12/04.

If it was a nuclear test, they the North Koreans were nimrods to do it above ground due to the fallout. That remote region of North Korea may have had a nuclear weapons lab, perhaps undergound? If that was the case, perhaps they were preparing for a nuclear bomb test, but had a FUBAR accident?

It said a source in China's capital said the explosion left a crater big enough to be seen by a satellite. ---Yahoo / Associated Press.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=4&u=/ap/20040912/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_explosion

The US and other nations with a screen of spy satellites in orbit around the Earth 24/7/365. Were the ones to tip off that a explosion took place at that railway industrial area, and now at this missile range slash nuclear testing facility. The US stating they have no idea that it was nuclear is major shovel full of BS. Because, these spy satellites as often been said, especially of the American ones. Have the capacity to see within a few meters on the ground, through buildings (perhaps underground?), and in many sprectrums of light. I may even speculate that they have other onbroad sensors, if not the NASA & European satellites do around orbit of the Earth and can detect a nuclear explosion. Keeping in mind these satellites are recording anything and everything 24/7/365.

The reason why the US officials are saying they don't know anything. Is they want the North Koreans to "Fess Up" that a nuclear explosion took place, it's all politics. The US, Chinese, and some other European nations certainly know it was nuclear explosion. But, remember President Bush was all adamant that we invaded Iraq due to WMD's. If it was declared that North Korea has cooked off a nuclear bomb, it would be a "slap in the face" to this White House administration.

===============

Now if what i have stated hasn't already concerned many of you, it gets worse. What if it wasn't a nuclear bomb test above ground, nor a accident before a such a test?

What if it was a retalitory nuclear bunker bomb delivered as a misslie. (picture a tomohawk missile) That hit that underground missile range slash nuclear testing facility? Perhaps it was the US, maybe the Chinese, or another nation or rogue element within North Korea?

If this was a take down military strike at this facility, it would explain why it exploded above ground, and not below like a more present day nuclear bomb test. Perhaps President Bush was sending a clear message not to screw with the USA and the world?

The winds in the region will start blowing fall out nuclear particles all over the place. Let's wait until South Korea, China, or other regional neighbors start reporting that.

It's a crazy world, especially for those who don't care about it.

 

[Smurf]

You have a sound argument there Atrayo. I hope your wrong and it wasn't a nuclear attack, guess we have to wait and see.

 

[plover]

when have we ever seen Napalm and other military munitions including bombs explode in a mushroom cloud formation?

Actually this is well documented—conventional explosions that are large enough to cause mushroom clouds just haven't occurred very often. IIRC, there was a U.S. munition transport ship that exploded near the end of WWII that was a good example of such a conventional explosion.

Whatever other reasons there may be to believe that the explosion was nuclear, this is actually not one.

 

[Loren Booda]

Bring out the geiger counters, such as those orbiting.

 

[plover]

Bring out the geiger counters, such as those orbiting.

Apparently the particles don't reach orbit—so satellite geiger counters are not useful in these circumstances.

 

[Atrayo]

Hello Plover,

Apparently the particles don't reach orbit—so satellite geiger counters are not useful in these circumstances. ---Plover.

That may be true, however they surely have several spectrum light bands such as infrared. They must know the signature explosion of a nuclear device in such bands or spectrum light. If that is the case, then whatever satellites that were in orbit when that explosion took place with the proper sensors onboard. Would've recorded the spectacle, be it: spy, commerical, or scientific satellites as the "eyes in the sky".

The CIA joint Air Force operation of the NRO (National Reconaissance Office) would've sighted it, or gathered the data from some other satellite in the area.

 

[plover]

Atrayo:

I expect there probably are satellites with appropriate instrumentation that could detect a nuclear blast—I was just pointing out that geiger counters wouldn't help. I wasn't arguing for or against any particular idea of what the nature of the explosion had been.

It would also be unsurprising if the CIA had some kind of ground based monitoring system in the vicinity.

 

[Smurf]

What I want to know is why some sort a picture of this hasn't surfaced yet.

 

[Locrian]

If the South Koreans no longer believe this was a nuclear explosion (and that their intelligence was bad), is there any evidence we should? Is there something I missed in the news about this?

 

[Atrayo]

Hello Plover,

I wasn't arguing for or against any particular idea of what the nature of the explosion had been. ---Plover.

I'm sorry if you inferred that i was disecting your point. I was merely continuing the conversation on the subject.

-------

Hello Smurf,

What I want to know is why some sort a picture of this hasn't surfaced yet. ---Smurf.

Well there is a consumer bit of software at KeyHole, with a community of users that offer satellite pics of that North Korean region. (there's an attachment, but not sure of the date of that specific pic)

Here's a little diddy on Keyhole:

Keyhole 2 NV is a software application that you download and install. It’s only 9MB, but with a Keyhole subscription (monthly or annual), you can fly through 12+ Terabytes of Earth imagery and data – spinning, rotating, tilting, and zooming. And you can switch planets and explore Mars as well!

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Hi Locrian,

If the South Koreans no longer believe this was a nuclear explosion (and that their intelligence was bad), is there any evidence we should? Is there something I missed in the news about this? ---Locrian.

Well as it's no longer news du jour of the day, this headline has conviently gone under the rug. We'll see in the coming months if truly there is any radiation fall-out in the region. (from people and livestock dropping dead) Otherwise i hope very much that I'm wrong, and it truly was a hydrodam evacvation clearing project.

 

[polyb]

Nuclear Poker?

In either case of N. Korea possesing nuclear weapons or not, they are now uping the stakes, or so goes this article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04268/384518.stm

Even though there is no conclusive evidence either way, little Kim is using the card!

Wait and see I guess.

Update:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040928/ap_on_re_as/un_north_korea_7

So the plot thickens!