Broken SU(2), Penrose and E8

[Charles Wilson]

Hello everyone-

I've tried to keep up with E8, but lately the Google-ing isn't as productive as it used to be.
I assume that there has been no Show Stopper and the push for E8 Unification continues. So: Concerning the E8 development:

Roger Penrose states in _The Road to Reality_ p. 653 (ISBN 978-0-679-77631-4 ):

"It is less clear to me, in the conventional attitude to the standard model, the group SU(2) can be taken actually as a gauge group, while being so severely broken. Some might take this SU(2) as reflecting some kind of 'hidden symmetry' which is really exact and acts only 'potentially' as a gauge group, and the electroweak theory is some kind of external manifestation of this."

If you take, for example, the Electroweak Weight Diagrams in the SciAm article by Lisi and Weatherall, do these exhibit the "More Perfect Symmetry" implied by Penrose or is the broken symmetry shown "as is", as an amalgam of Hypercharge and Weak Force? If the E8 diagrams show a "broken symmetry", what would the new diagram (reflecting a more perfect symmetry) look like?

CW

 

[AndyW]

Hello CW,

Thank you for bringing up this interesting topic. As a scientist working in the field of particle physics, I can assure you that the search for unification and understanding of symmetries is a constant and ongoing effort.

Regarding your question about the E8 development, I believe it is important to first clarify that E8 is a mathematical structure that has been proposed as a potential framework for unification. It is not yet an accepted theory or model in the scientific community, but rather a theoretical concept that is being explored.

In regards to Penrose's statement, it is true that the standard model of particle physics, which includes the gauge group SU(2), is a broken symmetry. This means that the symmetry is not exact, but rather broken at the energy scales we observe in our universe. This is a fundamental aspect of the standard model and is supported by experimental evidence.

As for the Electroweak Weight Diagrams, they do not exhibit a "more perfect symmetry" as implied by Penrose. They accurately represent the broken symmetry of the standard model, with the amalgamation of Hypercharge and Weak Force. If E8 were to be incorporated into the standard model, it would likely require modifications to the current diagrams to reflect this new framework.

I hope this helps clarify the current understanding of E8 and its potential role in unification. As always, scientific progress is a collaborative effort and these concepts are constantly evolving. Thank you for your interest and contribution to the discussion.