Conservation of Momentum vs Constant k for an Ideal Spring

In summary: BIGUITY: If the 1 kg mass was moving in the lab frame at the same velocity as the 2 kg block when they were put together, conservation of energy, as well as conservation of momentum, would applyIn summary, the author encountered a conflict between their thought process and the author's solution in a book regarding the use of conservation laws in solving a SHM system with an added mass. The author proceeded to use conservation of momentum, while the reader used conservation of energy. However, the application of conservation of energy is not valid at the moment the mass is added, as it is equivalent to an inelastic collision. Therefore, conservation of momentum must be used in this scenario. Additionally, the author should have clarified if
  • #1
BlazenHammer
5
1
Homework Statement
A horizontal spring block system of mass 2 kg executes SHM. When the block is passing through its equilibrium position ,an object of mass 1 kg is put on it and two move together.
Calculate the new Amplitude of oscillation:
Relevant Equations
The usual SHM and conservation eqns. , nothing special!
I encountered a weird conflict between my thought process and that of author's solution in book:

The common viewpoint of both of us were invoking conservation of energy of this SHM system

But the author proceeds to solve it using conservation of momentum, taking the new mass added to system as internal to the system
(I felt uneasy here, not sure if I understand this because if I recall correctly , due to a similar derivation of rocket equations in past where adding of new mass kind of acts like/leads to existence of certain force interactions)

## 2V = 3V'##

The author proceeds to find the the initial energy of the system and equates it to the energy when velcoity and mass has changed(Conservation of energy)

and arrives at ##A' =\sqrt{\frac{2}{3}}A ##

What I did was the invoke the conservation of energy, just keeping in mind that the angular velocity of SHM will change due to addition of new mass but ##k## of the spring remains constant

##E= \frac{mω^2A^2}{2}##
##E= \frac{m\frac{k}{m}A^2}{2}##

for intiial energy m = 2 and final energy expression m = 3

Solving the eqns gives that the new Amplitude remains same as the intital one?

##A' = A} ##
Now since conservation of momentum is very fundamental priniciple so either I might be wrong in my assumption or the author might be applying the principle incorrectly which I'm not able to spot as I don't remeber my basics throroughly
 
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  • #2
BlazenHammer said:
Homework Statement: A horizontal spring block system of mass 2 kg executes SHM. When the block is passing through its equilibrium position ,an object of mass 1 kg is put on it and two move together.
Calculate the new Amplitude of oscillation:
Homework Equations: The usual SHM and conservation eqns. , nothing special!

I encountered a weird conflict between my thought process and that of author's solution in book:

The common viewpoint of both of us were invoking conservation of energy of this SHM system

But the author proceeds to solve it using conservation of momentum, taking the new mass added to system as internal to the system
(I felt uneasy here, not sure if I understand this because if I recall correctly , due to a similar derivation of rocket equations in past where adding of new mass kind of acts like/leads to existence of certain force interactions)

## 2V = 3V'##

The author proceeds to find the the initial energy of the system and equates it to the energy when velcoity and mass has changed(Conservation of energy)

and arrives at ##A' =\sqrt{\frac{2}{3}}A ##

What I did was the invoke the conservation of energy, just keeping in mind that the angular velocity of SHM will change due to addition of new mass but ##k## of the spring remains constant

##E= \frac{mω^2A^2}{2}##
##E= \frac{m\frac{k}{m}A^2}{2}##

for intiial energy m = 2 and final energy expression m = 3

Solving the eqns gives that the new Amplitude remains same as the intital one?

##A' = A} ##
Now since conservation of momentum is very fundamental priniciple so either I might be wrong in my assumption or the author might be applying the principle incorrectly which I'm not able to spot as I don't remeber my basics throroughly
The action of adding the 1 kg mass is equivalent to an inelastic collision. So you can't use conservation of energy to analyze that particular part. Some of the energy in original spring-mass system is converted to heat when the 1 kg mass is tacked on.

Conservation of energy applies before the mass is added, and again later after the mass is added, but not at the moment the mass is added. So you'll need to rely on conservation of momentum to determine the new velocity, immediately after adding the 1 kg mass.
 
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  • #3
BlazenHammer said:
Homework Statement: A horizontal spring block system of mass 2 kg executes SHM. When the block is passing through its equilibrium position ,an object of mass 1 kg is put on it and two move together.
Calculate the new Amplitude of oscillation:
The author should have made it clear that the additional mass was stationary with respect to the lab frame at the moment it was added. If the 1 kg mass was moving in the lab frame at the same velocity as the 2 kg block when they were put together, conservation of energy, as well as conservation of momentum, would apply.

AM
 
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What is the conservation of momentum?

The conservation of momentum is a fundamental law of physics that states that the total momentum of a closed system remains constant. This means that in any interaction between objects, the total momentum before and after the interaction must be equal.

What is an ideal spring?

An ideal spring is a theoretical concept in physics that represents a massless, frictionless, and perfectly elastic spring. This means that when a force is applied to an ideal spring, it will stretch or compress without loss of energy and will return to its original length when the force is removed.

How does the conservation of momentum apply to an ideal spring?

In the case of an ideal spring, the conservation of momentum applies because the total momentum of the system (the mass attached to the spring and the spring itself) remains constant. This means that if the mass attached to the spring increases, the spring will stretch and its momentum will be added to the overall momentum of the system, keeping it constant.

What is the relationship between constant k and the conservation of momentum for an ideal spring?

The constant k, also known as the spring constant, is a measure of the stiffness of the spring. It is directly proportional to the force required to stretch or compress the spring. In the case of an ideal spring, the value of k remains constant and does not affect the conservation of momentum, as long as the spring remains ideal and follows Hooke's law.

Why is the conservation of momentum important in understanding the behavior of an ideal spring?

The conservation of momentum is important in understanding the behavior of an ideal spring because it helps us predict how the spring will respond to external forces. By knowing that the total momentum of the system remains constant, we can calculate the velocity and position of the mass attached to the spring at any given time and understand the dynamics of the system.

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