Elastic collision formulas -- Derivation blunder

The post should be a bit clearer and more organized.In summary, the conversation discusses the replacement and elimination of a variable, y, in a series of equations involving elastic collisions. The conversation also mentions the use of the trionym equation and the solution provided by Wolfram Alpha. However, there may be some discrepancies in the solution and further clarification is needed.
  • #1
luckis11
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_collision
μα+mβ=μx+my,
μα^2+mβ^2=μx^2+my^2
I want x in relation of all variables except y, therefore I need to replace-eliminate y:
μα+mβ=μx+my =>y=(μα+mβ-μx)/m
μα^2+mβ^2=μx^2+my^2=>y=((μα^2+mβ^2-μx^2)/m)^0.5
and it is eliminated if I equate these two parts of the two equalities with which y is equal to:
((μα+mβ-μx)/m)^2=(μα^2+mβ^2-μx^2)/m=>
(μα+mβ-μx)^2/m=μα^2+mβ^2-μx^2,
A=μα, Β=mβ, C=μx,
(A+B-C)^2=Α^2+ΑΒ-ΑC+AB+B^2-BC-AC-BC+C^2= Α^2+2ΑΒ-2ΑC+B^2-2BC+C^2=>
μ^2α^2+2μαmβ-2μαμx+m^2β^2-2mβμx+μ^2x^2=mμα^2+m^2β^2-mμx^2
so far wolframalfa answers x=(-m α + 2 m β + α μ)/(m + μ) which is the solution according to theory. But the last relation is equivalent with the trionym:
μ^2x^2+mμx^2-2μαμx-2mβμx+μ^2α^2+2μαmβ-mμα^2=0
A=μ^2+mμ, Β= -2αμ^2-2mβμ, C=μ^2α^2+2μαmβ-mμα^2,
Αx^2+Bx+C=0=>x=(-B+-(B^2-4AC)^0.5)/(2A)=>
x=(-(-2αμ^2-2mβμ)+-((-2αμ^2-2mβμ)^2-4(μ^2+mμ)(μ^2α^2+2μαmβ-mμα^2))^0.5)/
(2(μ^2+mμ))
And the latter equation is what also wolframalfa answers now!
And not only this does not seem how it can be factorized, but replacing arithmetic values:
(-m α + 2 m β + α μ)/(m + μ), m=2, α=3, β=5, μ=7=>35/9
(2*3*7^2+2*5*7*2+((-2*3*7^2-2*5*7*2)^2-4(7^2+7*2)(3^2*7^2-3^2*7*2+2*3*5*7*2))^0.5)/(2(2^2+2*7))=245/18≠35/9
(2*3*7^2+2*5*7*2-((-2*3*7^2-2*5*7*2)^2-4(7^2+7*2)(3^2*7^2-3^2*7*2+2*3*5*7*2))^0.5)/(2(2^2+2*7))=21/2≠35/9
whereas:
(7^2)x^2+2*7*x^2-2*49*3x-2*2*5*7*x+49*3^2+2*7*3*2*5-2*7*3^2=0=>x=35/9
Where is the mistake?
 
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unreadable...
 
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Arjan82 said:
unreadable...
Agreed. Thread closed for Moderation...
 
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Thread will remain closed. I have asked the OP to start a new thread using the "LaTeX Guide" link below the edit window, and pay attention to good paragraph structure and whitespace.
 

1. What is an elastic collision?

An elastic collision is a type of collision between two objects in which there is no loss of kinetic energy. This means that the total kinetic energy of the objects before and after the collision remains the same.

2. How is the formula for elastic collision derived?

The formula for elastic collision is derived from the principles of conservation of momentum and conservation of kinetic energy. By equating the initial and final momentum and kinetic energy of the objects, we can solve for the velocities after the collision.

3. What is the "derivation blunder" in elastic collision formulas?

The "derivation blunder" refers to an error in the derivation of the elastic collision formula that was commonly taught in textbooks and used in calculations. This error resulted in incorrect values for the velocities after the collision in certain scenarios.

4. How was the "derivation blunder" in elastic collision formulas corrected?

The "derivation blunder" was corrected by taking into account the relative masses of the objects in the collision. This correction is known as the "center of mass frame correction" and it results in more accurate values for the velocities after the collision.

5. Why is it important to use the corrected formula for elastic collision?

Using the corrected formula for elastic collision is important because it gives more accurate results and takes into account the relative masses of the objects. This is especially important in scenarios where the masses of the objects are significantly different, as the incorrect formula would give significantly different values for the velocities after the collision.

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