Energy minimisation, confusion in interpretation of question

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of minimizing energy in a system with fixed entropy, volume, and number of particles. The correct interpretation is to show that under these conditions, the energy is minimized according to the second law of thermodynamics. The question arises about whether there could be a situation where minimizing energy would lead to constant entropy, volume, and number of particles without initially specifying this constraint. The conversation also mentions the possibility of minimum energy being zero for zero particles and the use of availability in the derivation. The question remains about why constant E does not necessarily mean constant S, V, and N.
  • #1
Dazed&Confused
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Perhaps not an appropriate place to ask this. I've completed a question which is phrased as the following:

Explain, on thermodynamical grounds, why the minimisation of the energy [itex] E(S, V, N)[/itex] yields the equilibrium state of a system with fixed entropy S, volume V and number of particles [itex]N[/itex].

I had one interpretation, to show that minimisation of the energy, i.e. that [itex] dE = 0[/itex], leads to a fixed entropy, volume, and number of particles.

The correct interpretation was actually to show that under fixed, entropy, and number of particles the energy is minimised, using the second law. To me, this does not make sense, however it did lead to one question: is there a situation where minimising [itex] E[/itex] would lead to a constant entropy, volume, and number of particles where this was not specified initially?
 
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  • #2
Dazed&Confused said:
The correct interpretation was actually to show that under fixed, entropy, and number of particles the energy is minimised, using the second law.
... that's how I read it. The state is given by the numbers (S,V,N).

To me, this does not make sense, however it did lead to one question: is there a situation where minimising [itex] E[/itex] would lead to a constant entropy, volume, and number of particles where this was not specified initially?
... what would the constraint be? Minimum energy could be zero for zero particles.
 
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  • #3
Ok thanks. Ignore my question.

What I do not understand is why if [itex]E(S,V,N)[/itex] does constant [itex]S, V, N [/itex] not mean constant [itex]E[/itex].

I've seen the derivation using the availability but I'm not sure why the supposed contradiction isn't one.
 
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1. What is energy minimisation and why is it important in scientific research?

Energy minimisation is the process of finding the most stable and energetically favorable state of a system. It is important in scientific research because it helps us understand the behavior of various systems, from atoms and molecules to larger biological and physical systems.

2. How is energy minimisation used in computer simulations and modeling?

In computer simulations and modeling, energy minimisation is used to predict the behavior of a system by minimizing the total energy of the system. This allows scientists to study complex systems that are difficult to observe experimentally.

3. What are some common misconceptions about energy minimisation?

One common misconception is that energy minimisation always leads to the most accurate results. In reality, it is just one tool in a scientist's toolbox and must be used carefully and in conjunction with other methods to obtain accurate results.

4. How does energy minimisation relate to the laws of thermodynamics?

The process of energy minimisation is governed by the laws of thermodynamics, specifically the second law, which states that the energy of a closed system will tend towards its minimum possible value over time.

5. Can energy minimisation be applied to all systems, regardless of complexity?

While energy minimisation can be applied to a wide range of systems, its effectiveness may vary depending on the complexity of the system. Some systems may require more advanced methods or may not be amenable to energy minimisation at all.

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