Examining the Shocking Cultural Response to China's Hit and Run Toddler Case

[pergradus]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/china-shocked-as-hit-run-toddler-ignored-by-18-passers-by/story-e6frg6so-1226169339307

Scary that this sort of culture is rising as a world power...

 

[rootX]

I believe media might be missing something .. it is just not possible that two vehicles can hit and run over a toddler while passers-by ignore what happened. This is far worse than the New York (IIRC) case in which a homeless man bled to death.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15331773

P.S. BBC doesn't have graphics warning however I found video very troubling. I noticed BBC edited the video for better reasons however I was reading this on cbsnews who didn't even bother to edit the video.

 

[rootX]

Whoops! I didn't notice your thread.

 

[russ_watters]

Honestly, I'm not a fan of China, but I could see this happening in an American city.

 

[pergradus]

Honestly, I'm not a fan of China, but I could see this happening in an American city.

I really don't think so... I mean maybe with an adult, or a homeless person, but a child? You've got to be completely heartless or some kind of monster to leave a child to die in the street like that...

 

[Adyssa]

There was an interesting comment posted ... (somewhere, I can't remember where I saw it) regarding consequences for people in China who have helped in such a situation and then been charged with the incident, or had to pay for the damages, as there were insufficient witnesses or w/e, and I could also see this happening in Australia, in fact, incidents such as these have occurred. A quick google search reveals many incidents of hit+run/ignore although I can't find the one I vaguely recall.

It turns my stomach. :(

 

[rootX]

Honestly, I'm not a fan of China

I don't understand what that has to do here.

About a year ago, when a homeless man died in a similar incident I recall linking to this video about people standing up to protect innocent victim on street,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzmRtBGPqQw

Edit: I just noticed OP your title is bit inappropriate.

 

[lisab]

There was an interesting comment posted ... (somewhere, I can't remember where I saw it) regarding consequences for people in China who have helped in such a situation and then been charged with the incident, or had to pay for the damages, as there were insufficient witnesses or w/e, and I could also see this happening in Australia, in fact, incidents such as these have occurred. A quick google search reveals many incidents of hit+run/ignore although I can't find the one I vaguely recall.

It turns my stomach. :(

I read the same thing, but I couldn't find it back. Apparently there are no "good Samaritan" laws there. The article I read earlier today sited an instance of a guy who gave an injured man a ride to the hospital, only to be charged with operating an unlicensed taxi.

It is pretty unsettling to read about.

 

[rootX]

I read the same thing, but I couldn't find it back. Apparently there are no "good Samaritan" laws there. The article I read earlier today sited an instance of a guy who gave an injured man a ride to the hospital, only to be charged with operating an unlicensed taxi.

It is pretty unsettling to read about.

I thought it could have been really dark to notice the toddler or people might been throwing their garbage on the road frequently that you couldn't distinguish a small human body from litter as I said earlier:

I believe media might be missing something .. it is just not possible that two vehicles can hit and run over a toddler while passers-by ignore what happened. This is far worse than the New York (IIRC) case in which a homeless man bled to death.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15331773

P.S. BBC doesn't have graphics warning however I found video very troubling. I noticed BBC edited the video for better reasons however I was reading this on cbsnews who didn't even bother to edit the video.

 

[Monique]

I can't believe all these news agencies are attaching the video and that people actually go and watch it. The story alone is already bad enough.

 

[wukunlin]

I saw it a couple days ago. Apparently those bystanders didn't do anything about it is because in those societies whoever tries to help tend to become where the fingers point to. Puzzeling but has happened before.

that still doesn't explain why she got ran over the second time...

 

[DoggerDan]

I can't believe all these news agencies are attaching the video and that people actually go and watch it. The story alone is already bad enough.

Well, maybe the reason you can't believe people watch it is because it's so bad. I think the point remains: It's bad. How can so many drivers ignore what's going on without doing anything?

 

[Saitama]

That really made me cry. :(

How people can be so mean? Don't they have a heart inside them?

 

[jobyts]

My wife's Chinese immigrant colleague told her it is not unusual to see newborns left alone to die in drainage and people get used to ignore it. She, herself had adopted a child from China who was found in a drainage after couple of days of her birth. According to her, not all such kids are illicit born. Some parents desire to have a boy child and due to the one child policy from the Government, they let the girl child to die. Very sad.

 

[nucleargirl]

Its pretty messed up, but come on, it could happen in any other Asian country, African country, European country, the US, fricking anywhere in the world! Look at Spain for example, loads of babies delivered in Catholic hospitals by nuns were then taken away from their mothers and sold! the mothers were then shown a dead baby kept in a freezer as proof that their baby had died. Is that any less messed up?

Mess up stuff happen everywhere! you just don't hear about it as much when its in your own country and you make excuses because you think your own people cannot be that cruel! well they can! Look at the Uk, a 19 year girl beat her own baby so badly he is now brain damaged for the rest of his life. Is that any less cruel?

Stop picking on China and developing countries to make yourselves feel superior!
and I'm not a fan of China?! What?! are you a fan of the world? We all live in the same world! stop feeling like some man-made boundries called countries are so divisive! There are no lines on the Earth except on maps!

 

[nucleargirl]

[/url]

Scary that this sort of culture is rising as a world power...

what kind of sweeping statement is this?! one incidence is not a whole culture!
and did you read the background on this? People in China are scared of being sued cos one guy who helped a fallen old lady got unjustly fined by the courts. Its a current fear for some people. not a culture. Look at all the Chinese websites, the majority of blogers condemn the behaviour of all those passers-by, and I would say, having being in China, that the people are generally very helpful whether in the street or in shops, more so than here in the UK. So don't taint a whole culture with one incidence like this without havng read up on it or learned about the place!

Its like pointing out some shooting in L.A. and then saying, I'm quaking in my boots cos America is the leading world power and people are so cruel there... it makes no fricking sense!

 

[nucleargirl]

Seriously, what kind of racist thread is this?! one incidence and a whole country is wrong?!
What, do people not get run over in any other country? do people not die in the street?
Come on, a country with 1/7 of the world's population, you've got to expect some messed up stuff will happen there. Just like in the rest of the world.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

This reminds me of the Kitty Genovese murder back in 1964. She was assaulted and left for dead. Everyone ignored her calls for help and the assailant returned and killed her. The surprise wasn't only the behavior of her neighbors, it was the behavior of the whole country. In other words, the fact that we were shocked by it and considered it aberant was in itself considered big news.

 

[nucleargirl]

I hate people who base their judgements about people on random stuff they happen to read about a culture from newspapers from their own country. What, do you think people in other countries are THAT different from you? that's how slavery and concentration camps start. Seriously, are you not human? are we not ALL human? are humans not a little messed up? Stop feeling so superior - you are no different to anyone else. One man does not make a country, one country does not make the world.

 

[dacruick]

I hate people who base their judgements about people on random stuff they happen to read about a culture from newspapers from their own country. What, do you think people in other countries are THAT different from you? that's how slavery and concentration camps start. Seriously, are you not human? are we not ALL human? are humans not a little messed up? Stop feeling so superior - you are no different to anyone else. One man does not make a country, one country does not make the world.

You might be right about some things, but don't underestimate cultural influence on a society. I am superior to someone who doesn't help a dying child. This is not the only source out there that China does not treat their people well. And when you treat your people inhumanely, you create a lower standard

 

[cristo]

My wife's Chinese immigrant colleague told her it is not unusual to see newborns left alone to die in drainage and people get used to ignore it.

This is why I was not too surprised by this story; not for any 'racist' reason, or from superiority complex like is being implied above. It's common knowledge (or at least I thought it was) that the onset of the one child policy led to babies (mostly girls) being abandoned by their parents. So, seeing such a child in the street in trouble is not going to be nearly as out of place as in other countries.

 

[nucleargirl]

Yes, the govenment in China has a lot it could improve on, and yes there is a lot of corruption and injustice. It is messed up, but so is everywhere else! every country has its own problems whether in the past or present. Its no basis to feel superior.

you could only say you were superior if you and whoever you were comparing with had the same life experiences. can you say you are superior than a teenage mother who was abused as a child who then abuses her own child? No, becauase you were probably not abused as a child and so you learn to treat people with kindness, whereas she never had that opportunity.
You just can't judge like that.

People in china who didnt help the girl, could it be that if they were caught up in the same fate as the guy who was fined for helping the old lady, that they would not have the money and so would be homeless? or worse? China is a very unstable society at the moment, and a lot of people are poor. They are afraid of the consequences. It may seem like pure cruelty to you, but would you risk losing everything you had to help another person? did you notice that the woman who did help the girl was a garbage-collector?

 

[rootX]

what kind of sweeping statement is this?! one incidence is not a whole culture!
and did you read the background on this? People in China are scared of being sued cos one guy who helped a fallen old lady got unjustly fined by the courts. Its a current fear for some people. not a culture. Look at all the Chinese websites, the majority of blogers condemn the behaviour of all those passers-by, and I would say, having being in China, that the people are generally very helpful whether in the street or in shops, more so than here in the UK. So don't taint a whole culture with one incidence like this without havng read up on it or learned about the place!

Its like pointing out some shooting in L.A. and then saying, I'm quaking in my boots cos America is the leading world power and people are so cruel there... it makes no fricking sense!

Blaming all China for this rare incident is one thing, sensationalizing the story and prejudging people involved in this "rare incident" is another.

I still believe in the possibility that people did not ignore the toddler intentionally.

 

[pergradus]

Blaming all China for this rare incident is one thing, sensationalizing the story and prejudging people involved in this "rare incident" is another.

I still believe in the possibility that people did not ignore the toddler intentionally.

Well you're delusional then. But it's always easier to assume the best of people, because then there's no burden of holding people accountable for their horrendous actions.

It's sort of like defending Nazi soldiers in WWII by saying they were just following orders - it releases you from the burden of holding them accountable, and frees you from questioning yourself about how you'd act in the same situation, so in a sense it frees you from your own accountability as well. Keep the blinders on if it makes you feel better...

 

[DaveC426913]

Its pretty messed up, but come on, it could happen in any other Asian country, African country, European country, the US, fricking anywhere in the world! Look at Spain for example, loads of babies delivered in Catholic hospitals by nuns were then taken away from their mothers and sold! the mothers were then shown a dead baby kept in a freezer as proof that their baby had died. Is that any less messed up?

Mess up stuff happen everywhere! you just don't hear about it as much when its in your own country and you make excuses because you think your own people cannot be that cruel! well they can! Look at the Uk, a 19 year girl beat her own baby so badly he is now brain damaged for the rest of his life. Is that any less cruel?

Stop picking on China and developing countries to make yourselves feel superior!
and I'm not a fan of China?! What?! are you a fan of the world? We all live in the same world! stop feeling like some man-made boundries called countries are so divisive! There are no lines on the Earth except on maps!

Your examples are not really applicable. The examples you mention require some backstory and context of the people involved to find out what drove them to their actions and whether we are in a position to judge.

A baby lying in the street, being hit by a vehicle requires no processing to decide either what led up to it, or what to do about it.
- it matters not a wit what led up to it
- save the child

 

[DaveC426913]

It's sort of like defending Nazi soldiers in WWII by saying they were just following orders

I call a Godwin! And only post 26!

 

[rootX]

Well you're delusional then. But it's always easier to assume the best of people, because then there's no burden of holding people accountable for their horrendous actions.

It's sort of like defending Nazi soldiers in WWII by saying they were just following orders - it releases you from the burden of holding them accountable, and frees you from questioning yourself about how you'd act in the same situation, so in a sense it frees you from your own accountability as well. Keep the blinders on if it makes you feel better...

I call a Godwin! And only post 26!

That made my day! :rofl:

 

[pergradus]

I call a Godwin! And only post 26!

Yea yea, but it was a reasonable analogy in this case, the point being complete indifference to human suffering.

 

[thorium1010]

Yea yea, but it was a reasonable analogy in this case, the point being complete indifference to human suffering.

To label the whole nation based on a single incident is incorrect and shows bias since you know china is a communist country and curbs certain amount of freedom.
would you label U.S. the same way, because some U.S. soldiers in IRAQ allegedly abused prisoners .

 

[pergradus]

To label the whole nation based on a single incident is incorrect and shows bias since you know china is a communist country and curbs certain amount of freedom.
would you label U.S. the same way, because some U.S. soldiers in IRAQ allegedly abused prisoners .

Allegedly? They did. And yes, I would say that shows the U.S. military has some serious problems and major ethics violations.

 

[russ_watters]

[Russ: "...I'm not a fan of China"]
I don't understand what that has to do here.

I said that to make my bias clear, mostly to increase the perception of the credibility of my opinion: People tend to lend more credence to an argument/opinion that goes against a bias than an argument aligned with a bias. For example:
1. I'm a Republican and I don't like Obama.
2. I'm a Republican and I don't like McCain.

People will have a tendency to read the first and react with "figures - you're just going with your bias" whereas people might read the second and think there's something more to it.

Unfortunately in this case, it appears you and nucleargirl read the first half of that short sentence and ignored the second half, concluding incorrectly that I was attacking the Chinese people when, in fact, I was defending them.

I stand by my opinion that I don't see this incident as necessarily being an example the cultural problem that I agree with others that China has. (if my first post got misread, I don't know that there's any hope this one will be read properly - it's more complex )

Also - I didn't see the original title, but people need to relax and not cry racism immediately upon seeing a criticism of their country. Every country has cultural problems, and China's issues with the treatment of women is a well documented one for them. There's nothing racist about stating that reality.

Blaming all China for this rare incident is one thing, sensationalizing the story and prejudging people involved in this "rare incident" is another.

You [and several others] are completely misunderstanding what you are reading. People in this thread are not judging all of China based on this incident, they are attaching this incident to an already existing judgement. You're reading people's posts backwards.

I still believe in the possibility that people did not ignore the toddler intentionally.

I agree, which is why I don't attach the issue to my pre-existing judgement/bias.

 

[f95toli]

I am superior to someone who doesn't help a dying child.

The problem is that you don't know for a fact that you would help a dying child under there circumsatances. There are lots of examples of similar incidents happening in many different countries and cultures all over the world. The already mentioned Kitty Genovese case is the most famous example and lead to a a lot of research about how people react in situations like this, the conclusion from that research seems to be that we all have a build in reluctance to get involved when something unpleasant happens (for various reasons). The psykology of it seems to be a bit similar to what normal, decent people can do terrible things in e.g. a war.

It is not a nice thought that none of us can be sure that we would "do the right thing" in a situation like this, but it seems be true.

Hence, unless you've actually been in that situatuation you simply don't know.

 

[pergradus]

The problem is that you don't know for a fact that you would help a dying child under there circumsatances. There are lots of examples of similar incidents happening in many different countries and cultures all over the world. The already mentioned Kitty Genovese case is the most famous example and lead to a a lot of research about how people react in situations like this, the conclusion from that research seems to be that we all have a build in reluctance to get involved when something unpleasant happens (for various reasons). The psykology of it seems to be a bit similar to what normal, decent people can do terrible things in e.g. a war.

It is not a nice thought that none of us can be sure that we would "do the right thing" in a situation like this, but it seems be true.

Hence, unless you've actually been in that situatuation you simply don't know.

An action is right or wrong independent of how I or you would handle it. I can ask myself all day what I would do in N situations, and regardless of my conclusions there is still a right and a wrong choice.

Choosing to ignore a dying child - probably because she was a girl - is f'ing wrong, and it doesn't matter if under the circumstances I'd do the same or not, because if I did then I'd be just as wrong too.

 

[nucleargirl]

Your examples are not really applicable. The examples you mention require some backstory and context of the people involved to find out what drove them to their actions and whether we are in a position to judge.

A baby lying in the street, being hit by a vehicle requires no processing to decide either what led up to it, or what to do about it.
- it matters not a wit what led up to it
- save the child

The examples I gave did have background, and so did this incidence. It is not simply a hit and run and no-one went to help - you need to take into consideration the recent very public case of the man who helped an old lady and had to pay hundreds of thousands of her healthcare costs. Add to that the current instability in the country, and that most people are struggling to get by on their salaries. There is also perhaps the desensitisation of seeing abandoned babies and car crash victims in general, and the fact that it was in a crowded alleyway at night. All of these factors come into play.

 

[f95toli]

An action is right or wrong independent of how I or you would handle it. I can ask myself all day what I would do in N situations, and regardless of my conclusions there is still a right and a wrong choice.

Choosing to ignore a dying child - probably because she was a girl - is f'ing wrong, and it doesn't matter if under the circumstances I'd do the same or not, because if I did then I'd be just as wrong too.

Of course it is wrong. But that is not the issue (I don't think anyone disagrees with that).

The point I was making was that incidents like these are not in any way unique to China. It seems to be a common way for humans to react.