Frequently Made Errors in Mechanics - Friction - Comments

In summary, haruspex submitted a new PF Insights post on the frequently made errors in mechanics related to friction. The conversation discusses how friction always does negative work and how normal force always does zero work, but the author mentions that these statements may not always be true. They also mention that a disk sliding on a rough surface can be affected by friction to create torque, but there are other forces that can also produce torque. The conversation also touches on the importance of friction in different scenarios, such as holding a wrench or rotating a circular bolt. Ultimately, the conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding the equations for force and torque to properly analyze mechanics problems.
  • #1
haruspex
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haruspex submitted a new PF Insights post

Frequently Made Errors in Mechanics - Friction

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  • #2
With regards to the work done by forces,
I often hear blanket statements like
"friction always does negative work" and "normal force always does zero work".
 
  • #3
robphy said:
With regards to the work done by forces,
I often hear blanket statements like
"friction always does negative work" and "normal force always does zero work".
Yes.. the one about the normal force belongs in the "Forces" post. Unfortunately, my permission to edit it seems to have been taken away again. I'm forming the impression that a blog system (where an item is published and becomes cast in stone, only modifiable by a comment chain) is not suitable for what I thought this was about. It doesn't make a for usable reference text.
 
  • #4
If a disk slides on a rough surface, then friction will make the disk roll right? Because its the only force that can create a torque. Am I correct?
 
  • #5
AdityaDev said:
If a disk slides on a rough surface, then friction will make the disk roll right? Because its the only force that can create a torque. Am I correct?
A wrench can produce torque without friction. So can an electric motor. Or tidal gravity. Or a windmill [where, to be clear, it can be the "lift" that is producing torque and the "drag" is not essential].
 
  • #6
jbriggs444 said:
A wrench can produce torque without friction. So can an electric motor. Or tidal gravity. Or a windmill [where, to be clear, it can be the "lift" that is producing torque and the "drag" is not essential].
I was talking about one particular case. Also, If the wrench was frictionless, It will simply slide instead of rotating the object right?
 
  • #7
AdityaDev said:
I was talking about one particular case. Also, If the wrench was frictionless, It will simply slide instead of rotating the object right?
Most wrenches (box end, open end, adjustable, socket, etc) push on the faces of hexagonal and square nuts and bolts at a position offset from the center of the face. Friction is unimportant to their use.

Edit: Hard to hold them without friction, of course. Though not completely impossible.
 
  • #8
Understood. If the bolt was circular, then friction will be important right?
Also, for a ring, if a force is applied tangentially at its topmost point, then no friction is required to make it roll. And this true only for a ring.
Force equation:
$$F=ma$$
Torque eqation:
$$FR-fR=MR^2\alpha$$
$$F-f=MR\alpha$$
And for pure rolling, ##R\alpha=a##
So $$F-f=Ma$$
Since F=Ma, f=0.
 

Related to Frequently Made Errors in Mechanics - Friction - Comments

1. What are the most common errors made in mechanics when dealing with friction?

The most common errors made in mechanics when dealing with friction include underestimating the effects of friction, assuming friction is always static, neglecting the direction of friction, and failing to consider the type of surface and its roughness.

2. How does underestimating the effects of friction impact the accuracy of mechanics calculations?

Underestimating the effects of friction can lead to inaccurate results in mechanics calculations. Friction is a force that opposes motion and can significantly impact the movement of objects, especially when dealing with high speeds or heavy objects. Neglecting to consider friction can result in errors and incorrect predictions.

3. Can you explain the difference between static and kinetic friction?

Static friction is the force that prevents an object from moving when a force is applied to it. Kinetic friction, on the other hand, is the force that opposes the movement of an object that is already in motion. Both types of friction are important to consider in mechanics calculations, and neglecting one or the other can lead to errors.

4. What role does the type of surface and its roughness play in friction?

The type of surface and its roughness can greatly affect the amount of friction present in a system. For example, a rough surface will have more friction than a smooth surface, and different materials may have different coefficients of friction. It is important to consider these factors when calculating friction in mechanics problems.

5. How can one minimize errors when dealing with friction in mechanics?

To minimize errors when dealing with friction in mechanics, it is important to accurately measure and account for all the factors that can affect friction, such as surface type, roughness, and the direction of the force. It is also helpful to double-check calculations and use real-world examples to validate the results.

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