Gauging Poincare to obtain Einstein gravity

In summary, the conversation is discussing the procedure for obtaining gravity from gauged Poincare algebras. This involves gauging the Poincare algebra with generators P and M, obtaining two gauge fields (the vielbein and the spin connection), and setting the curvature of P to zero. This constraint has two effects: the spin connection becomes a dependent field and the P-transformations are exchanged for general coordinate transformations (gct's). However, it is unclear how this exchange is done and if the new gauge algebra will close on the fields. The conversation also mentions a potential issue with treating the parameters as lying in an internal space while wanting to make an identification to external transformations.
  • #1
haushofer
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Hi,

I'm rather confused about the procedure in which people obtain gravity from gauged (super)-Poincare algebras. Let me outline what this procedure is.

*First you gauge the Poincare algebra with generators P and M
*You obtain two gauge fields: the vielbein (associated with P) and the spin connection (associated with M)
*After that you put the curvature of P, called R(P), to zero: R(P)=0

Now, this R(P)=0 constraint has two effects:

1) The spin connection becomes a dependent field; the number of constraints equals the number of components of the spin connection, and thus it can be solved

2) One can "exchange" the P-transformations for general coordinate transformations (gct's), which is what you want: in a theory of gravity there are no P-transformations, but just gct's and local Lorentz transformations (GR can as such be defined on a tangent bundle with these two transformations as right- and left transformations)

However, this second step is not clear to me. Gauging the Poincare algebra is done a la Yang-Mills, so the algebra is realized on the gauge fields. So the parameter of the P-transformations is NOT a vector lying in the tangent space, right? It's just an internal parameter. However, in the end you want the Local Lorentz transformations to act in the tangent space, so where do you make this identification?

Also, this exchanging of the P-transformations, which is often described in texts about supergravity, is not clear to me. The relation in the Poincare case says that

[tex]
\xi^{\lambda}\partial_{\lambda}e_{\mu}^a + \partial_{\mu}\xi^{\lambda}e_{\lambda}^a = \xi^{\lambda}R_{\lambda\mu}^a (P) + \delta_{P}(\xi^{\lambda}e_{\lambda}^b)e_{\mu}^a + \delta_M(\xi^{\lambda}\omega_{\lambda}^{ef})e_{\mu}^a
[/tex]

The LHS is a gct, and so we see that putting R(P)=0 we get a relation between gct's, P-transformations with a gauge parameter involving the vielbein, and a local Lorentz transformation involving the spin connection. However, these are NOT the usual gauge transformations, so how is this "exchange" precisely done?

Also, obviously you change the gauge algebra, and is it guaranteed that it will still close on the fields?

Thanks in forward!
 
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  • #2
Einstein, and most modern scientists, prefer Lorentzian transforms. Poincaire relies more on semi-classical approaches - which are less robust in quantum treatments.
 
  • #3
I'm not talking about making things quantum mechanically; I just want a thorough prescription how you obtain GR from the gauged Poincare algebra, and step (2) in my first post is my main obstacle :)

I'm not sure what you mean to say.

The subtlety lies in the fact that you're gauging Poincare in the Yang-Mills way and treat the parameters as lying in some internal space, while in the end ofcourse you want to make an identification to "external transformations" (by which I mean spacetime transformations!), namely gct's.

Ofcourse, you could be just pragmatic, but I have the feeling something fishy is going on here.
 
  • #4
A small kick :)
 

1. What is the Poincare gauge?

The Poincare gauge is a mathematical framework used to describe the geometry of spacetime. It is based on the principles of Poincare symmetry, which states that the laws of physics are the same in all inertial reference frames.

2. How does gauging Poincare lead to Einstein gravity?

Gauging Poincare allows us to incorporate gravity into the framework by introducing a gravitational field that couples to the Poincare gauge field. This leads to the equations of general relativity, which describe how matter and energy interact with the gravitational field.

3. What are the advantages of using Poincare gauge over other gauges?

One advantage of using Poincare gauge is that it is fully covariant, meaning that it is invariant under coordinate transformations. This allows for a more elegant and consistent description of gravity compared to other gauges.

4. Can Poincare gauge be used to describe other theories of gravity?

Yes, Poincare gauge can be used to describe various theories of gravity beyond Einstein's theory, such as teleparallel gravity and f(T) gravity. It provides a more general framework for studying the geometry of spacetime and the behavior of gravitational fields.

5. Are there any current applications of gauging Poincare to obtain Einstein gravity?

Yes, gauging Poincare to obtain Einstein gravity is a fundamental aspect of modern theoretical physics and is used in various fields such as cosmology, black hole physics, and quantum gravity. It is also being studied as a possible solution to the problem of unifying general relativity with quantum mechanics.

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