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wolram
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I have just been reading this https://arxiv.org/pdf/1901.09542.pdf It makes me wonder if anyone would go on a generation ship, What about you? I would not.
Since it's not going to happen in our lifetimes, who cares? Let our great, great, great ... great grandchildren worry about it.wolram said:I have just been reading this https://arxiv.org/pdf/1901.09542.pdf It makes me wonder if anyone would go on a generation ship, What about you? I would not.
phinds said:Since it's not going to happen in our lifetimes, who cares? Let our great, great, great ... great grandchildren worry about it.
Perhaps, but that was not the point of the quoted article that started this thread. If you want to talk about / think about Earth as a closed system, fine, but why not do so directly instead of bringing in some indirect mechanism?ohwilleke said:A generation ship is also a thought experiment that requires thinking about human society and its ecology as a closed system like the real generation ship which is planet earth, and by thinking about it we consider the vulnerabilities facing our species in terms of long term survival.
As the risk of derailment, I would argue this is not so.stefan r said:Planet Earth is a type of generation ship. It's course is set for orbit around the Sun.
DaveC426913 said:As the risk of derailment, I would argue this is not so.
Earth is highly dependent on the Sun for its energy.
Nevermind the issue about a "ship that cannot move", the point is that the erstwhile Earthship's power source is external - and fixed.
And you think there would be wind without the energy from the sun? Really?stefan r said:I did not see a power source listed in the article. Columbus crossed the Atlantic using an external power source (wind). I thought that was on "3 ships".
phinds said:And you think there would be wind without the energy from the sun? Really?
A boat is something you can carry on a ship. That's why they are called lifeboats, not lifeships.stefan r said:I am not completely clear on the difference between boats and ships either.
Considering the technology level required for building it I think it is safe to replace that 'world' with 'solar system' instead. And that's a lot of resource.anorlunda said:...It will take a large fraction of the world's resources to build it...
phinds said:Perhaps, but that was not the point of the quoted article that started this thread. If you want to talk about / think about Earth as a closed system, fine, but why not do so directly instead of bringing in some indirect mechanism?
A reasonable pointohwilleke said:The same reason the physicist starts off modeling spherical cows. It is more tractable to deal with.
stefan r said:Being a male minority in a floating garden has some fantasy potential.
I didn't read the whole discussion, but to me the relevant factor is the voyage, not what you call the vehicle. An interstellar ship is unlike Earth in that it cannot be externally powered. That may have been @DaveC426913 's point.stefan r said:No, the post from Dave is the first time I have seen someone claim that ships needed to be internally powered. I see nothing wrong with a solar powered ship. We can call Earth a solar boat or solar raft.
I vaguely recall a couple of science fiction stories that use that as their central premise.gmax137 said:Also, if the generation ship crew ever arrives at Proxima Centauri, after a 6300 year trip, I would expect them to be greeted by the descendants of the (much) faster ships who left earth, say, 4000 years later.
Well that's rude!gmax137 said:Also, if the generation ship crew ever arrives at Proxima Centauri, after a 6300 year trip, I would expect them to be greeted by the descendants of the (much) faster ships who left earth, say, 4000 years later.
That's the conundrum of slow interstellar travel. Do you launch now and have the trip take 6000 yrs, or do wait 100 yrs until your propulsion methods have improved enough to reduce the trip time to 5500 yrs, getting you there 400 yrs earlier? At what point can you assume that further propulsion improvements won't allow a later launched ship to beat a earlier launched ship?gmax137 said:The linked paper, and its references, are talking about a 6300 year trip. Think about that. 6300 years ago (4281 BC) was 1700 years before the Cheops pyramid was built. And the pyramid is looking a little ratty today. You can't expect any machine to operate for six thousand years. Much less an isolated device that must be self sufficient.
Also, if the generation ship crew ever arrives at Proxima Centauri, after a 6300 year trip, I would expect them to be greeted by the descendants of the (much) faster ships who left earth, say, 4000 years later.
It's only a conundrum if one posits the creation of the ship in a vacuum of motive. i.e. that you have a choice of when to launch.Janus said:That's the conundrum of slow interstellar travel. Do you launch now and have the trip take 6000 yrs, or do wait 100 yrs until your propulsion methods have improved enough to reduce the trip time to 5500 yrs, getting you there 400 yrs earlier? At what point can you assume that further propulsion improvements won't allow a later launched ship to beat a earlier launched ship?
More like embarrassing, I thinkruss_watters said:Well that's rude!
jrmichler said:...
1) Atmosphere. The generation ship in the OP's referenced paper is 448 m diameter by 320 m long. ...
jrmichler said:... Air under pressure is always trying to leak out. There is not such thing as 100% perfect seals, nor is there any way to 100% guarantee zero accidents causing air to leak out. A leak rate of 0.1% per year would require ...
A generation ship is a type of hypothetical spacecraft that is designed to travel long distances through space over multiple generations. It is meant to sustain a human population for hundreds or even thousands of years, as it would take that long to reach its intended destination.
People might want to go on a generation ship for a variety of reasons. Some might be adventurous and want to explore new worlds, while others might be seeking a new start or a better life. Some might also see it as a way to preserve the human race in case of a global catastrophe on Earth.
Living on a generation ship would present numerous challenges and risks. The confined space and limited resources could lead to psychological and social issues, and the isolation from Earth and other humans could be difficult to cope with. There would also be technical and mechanical challenges to keep the ship running for generations.
A generation ship would need to be self-sustaining, meaning it would have to produce its own food, water, and oxygen. This could be achieved through advanced hydroponic systems, recycling technology, and other self-sustaining methods. The ship would also need to have a stable energy source, such as nuclear fusion, to power its systems.
The idea of sending a group of people on a generation ship raises ethical concerns. Some might argue that it is unethical to subject future generations to a life of confinement and isolation without their consent. Others might argue that it is a necessary step for the survival and advancement of the human race.