Godel's ITs & the Physical World: Is a ToE impossible?

In summary: In summary, both Hawking and Dyson have stated that Godel's incompleteness theorems prove the impossibility of formulating a fundamental Theory of Everything. It is debated whether these theorems apply to the physical world as they do to mathematics. Some believe that our attempts to find a ToE are futile, as it is arrogant to assume we can explain everything in the universe. Others argue that we have made progress in understanding the physics of the universe, but there are still limitations to our mathematical theories. Ultimately, the debate raises questions about the nature of existence and the role of belief in scientific theories.
  • #1
greswd
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Both Hawking and Dyson have said that Godel's incompleteness theorems prove that it is impossible for us to formulate an absolutely fundamental Theory of Everything.

Is that true? Do the theorems apply to the physical world as they apply to the realm of mathematics?
 
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  • #2
To be truthful, they are chasing rainbows in finding ToE...there is no such thing, to explain everything in the universe, you may explain this one, but others are different. That is the arrogance of humanity to be correct on this subject. There are many versions of mathematics in this physical world. Indeed we have discovered some areas of cosmology about the physics. The mathematics is one thing. We need to rethink existence before we learn about everything in universe.
 
  • #3
greswd said:
Both Hawking and Dyson have said that Godel's incompleteness theorems prove that it is impossible for us to formulate an absolutely fundamental Theory of Everything.

Is that true? Do the theorems apply to the physical world as they apply to the realm of mathematics?

A very good question, I would have asked similar. Especially it is a very actual debate because in theoretical physics we try to prove one theory with another theory mathematically. (M theory for S Matrix)
 
  • #4
M-theory is close, but to many million miles away from the theory. I believe we would be able to know our universe. But others no chance. String theory is other failure for ToE. There is a beautiful equation there, but something does not complete the reality. There is ways to marry GR with Quantum Theory.
 
  • #5
DarkoDornel said:
M-theory is close, but to many million miles away from the theory. I believe we would be able to know our universe. But others no chance. String theory is other failure for ToE. There is a beautiful equation there, but something does not complete the reality. There is ways to marry GR with Quantum Theory.

Hawking has a different opinion on this. But we are talking about Goedels theorem of incompleteness and I gave a hint of the second theorem of incompleteness of Geodel which explains, why we cannot prove Theory A with Theory B. The Axiomatic of both Theories will forbid it.
 
  • #6
Hawking is pulling on strings ( pardon the pun!). There is no theory of everything, it does not fit in too the realities of universe. We think of the theories of today and the past has a house, we dig the foundations, and we layed the floor...and that is it. I do not believe in the big bang at all!
 
  • #7
Not is impossible...it just that we try to hard to complete something. If one scientist says one thing its gospel...everybody starts giving into them, sending them into ego trip!
 
  • #8
DarkoDornel said:
Hawking is pulling on strings ( pardon the pun!). There is no theory of everything, it does not fit in too the realities of universe. We think of the theories of today and the past has a house, we dig the foundations, and we layed the floor...and that is it. I do not believe in the big bang at all!

sure it is a question of believing systems in science. Are we Platon believer or are we Wittgenstein believer.
 
  • #9
I believe that mankind could do better, but its the arrogance of everything in the present.
 

1. What is Godel's Incompleteness Theorem (IT)?

Godel's Incompleteness Theorem is a mathematical proof by Kurt Godel that states any formal system of mathematics is either incomplete or inconsistent. In simpler terms, there will always be true statements within a system that cannot be proven within that system.

2. How does Godel's IT relate to the physical world?

Godel's IT has implications for the physical world because it suggests that there may be fundamental limitations to our ability to fully understand and describe the universe using mathematical models. This means that a Theory of Everything (ToE) may be impossible, as there will always be aspects of the universe that cannot be fully explained or predicted.

3. Can Godel's IT be applied to other areas besides mathematics?

Yes, Godel's IT has been applied to fields such as computer science, philosophy, and linguistics. It has also been suggested that the theorem may have implications for the study of consciousness and human cognition.

4. Is Godel's IT widely accepted in the scientific community?

Yes, Godel's IT is widely accepted as a significant and groundbreaking discovery in mathematics and logic. However, its implications for the physical world are still a topic of debate and further research is needed to fully understand its implications.

5. Are there any attempts to reconcile Godel's IT with a Theory of Everything?

Yes, there have been attempts to reconcile Godel's IT with a Theory of Everything, such as the concept of "self-referential universes" where the limitations of Godel's IT are accounted for in the structure of the universe itself. However, these attempts are still theoretical and have not been fully proven or accepted by the scientific community.

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