Goodbye & Farewell from a Moderator

[Ivan Seeking]

I wanted to make a last post as moderator to let you all know that after almost eight years I’ve decided to retire from the staff. Business is booming and I was argued out long ago. I could probably tolerate a few more debates, just barely , but the biggest issue is the time. Even a small forum like S&D can require a great deal of work at times. Most people probably have no idea how much work the staff does behind the scenes. And I will tell you, running PF is not an easy thing to do. There have been many very heated debates behind the scenes, and some in front, over the years. But no matter how heated the debates became, we all had the common goal of making PF the best it can possibly be. The entire staff deserves your appreciation and respect. They are a phenomenal group of people. It has been an honor to serve with each and every one.

As a last hurrah it seems appropriate to offer some final observations and comments. I made S&D my mission because I saw a discontinuity between the logic typically applied to scientific or other academic discussions, and the logic applied to unpopular or fringe discussions. But rather than seeking to resolve any particular question, the goal was to identify, evaluate, quantify [if possible], and classify claims. What can factually be said about a claim? Is there compelling anecdotal evidence for a specific claim or is it more akin to an Elvis sighting or tabloid gossip? Is there any logical but anecdotal evidence for a genuine mystery? In many or most cases the goal was to provide perspective, not answers. If a claim is easily debunked beyond any reasonable doubt, then it can be dismissed. If not, then here is what can be said about. That has been the approach from the start.

Unfortunately, as a result of the aforementioned approach, I have spent a good part of eight years arguing about what I didn’t say. The urge for all of us to make assumptions based on impressions is all but overwhelming. If something sounds like nonsense, or if we believe it to be nonsense, we tend to draw conclusions about anyone discussing it. Our minds close and objectivity goes out the window. I am guilty of this just as much as anyone else. It was a constant battle to remain absolutely objective when labels came into play. But there have also been many times when, at first glance, something seemed to be nonsense, when in fact there was a logical explanation; or at least potentially so. I have learned that claims can sound like utter nonsense one minute, and the next, with a slight change of perspective, it all makes perfect sense. It is far too easy to pass judgement too quickly.

Can the sea glow bright blue at night for tens or hundreds of miles in all directions? Yes, if the proper bacteria are present. Can vaginas grow teeth? Yes…nuff said. Do ninety-foot waves come out of nowhere on relatively calm seas? Can we sweat blood? Can ball lightning enter through the wall of an aircraft in flight and then roll down the aisle? Can some animals detect cancer through smell? Yes, yes, yes! From the Sliding Rocks of Racetrack Playa to the Bung Fai Phaya Naga of Thailand, from the ELVES in the upper atmosphere to the Hobbits in Indonesia, from The Bloop of the Pacific to the Earthlights of Japan, the world - the universe - is a strange and magical place. I have no doubt that there are many amazing discoveries yet to be made. Perhaps we have touched on a few of them here.

I will be around at times but I wanted to officially say goodbye and thank everyone for their participation over the years. It has been quite a ride.

Always seek the truth and be amazed by everything you find. It makes life rich.

The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed.

 

[Raphie]

I am sorry to hear you are retiring, Ivan Seeking. Although we disagreed in the not so recent past, the "props" I gave you were sincerely intended. This forum will suffer for your absence. From my perspective, you are a "responsible explorer" and "we" (the general "we") need more, not fewer, of you in positions of power.

The dogmatic tendencies of this forum are increasingly palpable (e.g. in the form of spuriously locked threads by well-meaning but [descriptors withheld] mentors); and it rather makes me wonder how pride of PF A. Garrett Lisi managed to debut here. His approach to theoretical physics was, and still is; highly speculative, a clear "violation" of PF rules.

But that's how science moves forward. By allowing for the (responsible) exploration into the impossible (nod to Arthur C. Clarke).

The Dr. Brian Josephson (Nobel Laureate) thread, incidentally, now has over 11,000 hits, the majority of those hits subsequent to its now "locked" status. I thank you, specifically, for doing your part to allow that discussion to happen.

Best wishes to you,
Raphie

 

[hypatia]

You really had your work cut out for you, in this section of forum. I was always glad their was a place, for people to post about mysteries, and things that may never be clearly understood. Thank you for your time and effort.Now, where is the retirement party/bash going to be held?

 

[alt]

I've alway thought you struck a good balance between forum rules, restrictive as they might be, and the burning desire of some to discuss things uncommon.

Best wishes, Ivan. Keep Seeking !

 

[turbo]

Thanks for all your work Ivan. I'm glad to hear that your business is doing well - in this economy, that's a wonderful thing.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Thank you for all the you've done here. I've enjoyed it very much. Good luck with everything!

 

[cobalt124]

Enjoy your "retirement". Hopefully you will still have time to post here.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Oh man what a terrible loss!

You were my favorite poster/mentor and always very well articulated. I almost agreed with you on every subject, except maybe Reagan.

Wow eight years! That’s a very long time! You really deserve time off!

I wish you all the luck in your business. (And don’t forget to report on PF when you outrun Bill Gates in the $ league. )

Just a small 'virtual retirement gift':

Have a really good time and please come back sooooooon! :!)

Thanks for everything.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Thanks everyone.

Waldo, I got your message. This was not a quick decision. We've come a long way but I had been considering my exit for a very long time now. In fact, the truth is that I've considered quitting almost every day for most of the last eight years! No kidding! And recently I have found it all but impossible to find the time to give the forum the attention required.

 

[dlgoff]

I'm really sorry to hear you are leaving.

Thanks for all the years Ivan.

Good luck.

 

[jreelawg]

This forum won't be the same without you.

Sorry for being at times the one who may have overheated the debate.

I have appreciation for the way you handled yourself in this place.

Often it is not the content of the discussion which becomes the debate, but rather the assumed ridiculousness of the topic which dominate the conversation. It has seamed a common place for people not interested in the mystery, but rather interested in stopping by to kick a dog, or have a laugh. At many times I find people eager to stop in and make labels, and assumptions, yet all too reluctant to involve themselves in a serious discussion. And often times, furious when they swoop in for a swift kick only to miss, get spun around and bit.

And then there are also, of coarse, the times when a claim does not fit the criteria for discussion, or has been debunked. There are those who constantly try to insert uncommon information. Sometimes, true, rare and important. Sometimes dubious, unsubstantiated, or obviously false, and sometimes somewhere in between where things get fuzzy and you need to put on your glasses.

As a moderator, you have to referee this game, and it takes a lot of work simply to not only read it all, but to do the fact checking and research enough to call a good game.

It must have been stressful for you to moderate such a place, and as much as I think you love to attempt to solve mysteries, I am happy for you that such a heavy burden will be off your back.

You and other moderators of this forum in general, are of great service to the community.Thanks for hanging in there for so long.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It must have been stressful for you to moderate such a place, and as much as I think you love to attempt to solve mysteries, I am happy for you that such a heavy burden will be off your back.

I want to respond to this for the sake of clarity. I have always had a love-dread relationship with PF. Not only did I referee the debates, which you are right, can be very time consuming, but I also went out of my way to make myself a target. I saw my role much like that of a defense attorney. While I may or may not have a personal opinion on the matter of interest in terms of absolutes, everyone is entitled to play by the same set of rules and deserves whatever logical defense exists. There were many times that even I was cringing as I made some post logically defending something I didn’t believe. But at PF we have a unique situation. If we have 250,000 members, then we probably have 240,000 skeptics and debunkers. Additionally, most outspoken true believers don’t do a very good job of defending the credible arguments that do exist for various claims. Before long they are often banned. There was the additional job of separating the label from the claim. Some words are so highly charged that it makes rational discussion very difficult at times. The challenge was always to ascertain the most essential facts regardless of labels, beliefs, interpretations, or opinions.

This may surprise many people: I don’t know what to make of the UFO phenomenon. All that I have ever tried to do was to present the best information available and argue that many reports are quite fascinating and hard to dismiss. That’s it. In eight years my story has never changed and I’ve never taken a firm position beyond that, but you would never know it!

The one thing that created probably 90% of the conflicts over the years was this: Insisting that the same rules and logic apply to everyone. It didn’t take long to figure out that my role was to make everyone unhappy. As required, the infraction system was used to motivate members to follow the rules. And in eight years, many members had to be banned from both sides of the fence. But opinions can be strong and emotions often run high. In the end it was my job to be no one’s friend. I had to be the jerk. The integrity of the forum depended on it and I hated every minute of that part. But the rules had been carefully considered and had evolved over the years. They worked. And to the best of my knowledge I always stuck to the rules religiously. Nonetheless, this created endless conflict [mainly because no one bothered to read the rules or they ignored the part that applied to them!]. Also, as Lisab once said, moderating was often like herding cats. While we have had many fascinating discussions, the tendency is for always for chaos. It can be quite frustrating trying to keep discussions on topic.

At the same time, I loved what we were doing; if I didn’t I could never have lasted eight years. I was also dedicated to the mission of PF. And I believe that what we have done here is useful. So for all of the frustrations, I think it was worth it.

So, a burden, yes, but it was a blast every step of the way.

 

[Drakkith]

Thanks for your time spent here on PF ivan! I know it was tough!

 

[ideasrule]

Thanks for all the good work over the past eight (!) years. I personally like your open-minded attitude, and think you did a good job of separating crackpottery from "edgy" but legitimate claims.

 

[Raphie]

This may surprise many people: I don’t know what to make of the UFO phenomenon. All that I have ever tried to do was to present the best information available and argue that many reports are quite fascinating and hard to dismiss. That’s it. In eight years my story has never changed and I’ve never taken a firm position beyond that, but you would never know it!

There is a new term "out there" to parse the psychological divide between "UFO" and "Unidentified Flying Object."

UAP

"Unidentified Aerial Phenomena"

No little green men required.

- RF

P.S. My understanding of this term comes from one who is filming a documentary on the subject. The intent of the term and how it may eventually come to be construed by the public writ large may not synchronize. In short, UAP is the type of term one might also make recourse to in referencing phenomena such as oceans glowing for hundreds of miles across... although no one yet understands why.

 

[DaveC426913]

We've had our differences but you will be missed.

Godspeed.

 

[Dembadon]

Thanks for all the work you've done, Ivan. I wish you luck in your business and hope that you're successful in all your endeavors.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

We've had our differences but you will be missed.

Godspeed.

Thanks, Dave. In fact we had our little run in fairly recently. This was actually one event that added to the list of reasons why it was time to retire. I had no patience left - NONE!

Here is a deep dark secret: Being a moderator is enough to drive a saint to murder. This is especially true in S&D, as I'm sure it is in politics, for Evo.

 

[GeorginaS]

It's really interesting, Ivan, to now hear the details of your approach to your role w/r/t S&D. It certainly provides perspective. Largely, I think you did a great job with this time-consuming project. More than once your "don't immediately shut this idea down without considering A, B, C" gave me pause to sit back and reconsider subjects that I would generally dismiss out of hand. Watching the application of some excellent critical thinking skills has been valuable.

I realize you've put a lot of work into this -- the sheer amount of time required is impressive all on its own. Thanks for doing it, Ivan.

 

[cobalt124]

Watching the application of some excellent critical thinking skills has been valuable.

I find this true of all of PF, but escpecially is needed in S&D for it to be more than "anywhere else on the internet". I'm reminded of this (with my tongue firmly in my cheek):

"On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Mark 2:17, NIV).