Honduran President, Chavez Ally, Ousted in Coup

[signerror]

The gist of it:

Tension mounted this week when Zelaya, a Chavez ally, angered the Honduran Congress, Supreme Court and army by pushing for a public vote to gauge support for changing the constitution to let presidents seek re-election beyond a single four-year term.

Before he could hold the poll on Sunday, the Honduran military seized Zelaya in his pajamas and flew him to Costa Rica in Central America's first successful army coup since the Cold War.

[Reuters] Leftist leaders rally around Honduran president

Honduran military in the Presidential palace:

.
Zelaya in Costa Rica holding a press conference, still in his pajamas:

.
The Supreme Court says the removal was lawful, and that they had in fact ordered it:

Mr Zelaya, elected for a non-renewable four-year term in 2006, had wanted a vote to extend his time in office.

His arrest came just before the start of a referendum ruled illegal by the Supreme Court and opposed by Congress.

There had also been resistance within Mr Zelaya's own party to the plan for the vote.
[...]
Later the Honduran Supreme Court said it had ordered the removal of the president, who had been due to leave office next January

[BBC] Honduran leader forced into exile

The military offered no public explanation for its actions, but the Supreme Court issued a statement saying that the military had acted to defend the law against “those who had publicly spoken out and acted against the Constitution’s provisions.”

[New York Times] Honduran President Is Ousted in Coup

Zelaya defends himself, alleging his ouster is a plot to oppress poor people:

"This was a plot by a very voracious elite, an elite which wants only to keep this country isolated, in an extreme level of poverty," he said.

(ibid) [BBC] Honduran leader forced into exile

Communist dictators rallied in support of the pajama man:

Cuba condemns Honduras coup as 'criminal, brutal'

HAVANA, June 28 (Reuters) - Cuba condemned Sunday's military coup in Honduras as "criminal, brutal" and demanded the immediate return to office of deposed leftist President Manuel Zelaya.
[...]
"Their resignation should be demanded and younger officers not beholden to the oligarchy should take over the military," Castro wrote in a column for Cuba's state media.
[...]
"I denounce the criminal, brutal character of this coup," Cuban Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez told a news conference in Havana earlier in the day.
[...]
Zelaya is viewed by Cuba's communist leadership as a leftist ally and former Cuban leader Fidel Castro had expressed backing for his efforts to hold an unofficial public vote on Sunday to gauge support for his plan to hold a November referendum on allowing presidential re-election.

[Reuters] Cuba condemns Honduras coup as 'criminal, brutal'

Yup, that Fidel Castro claiming constitutional term limits aren't important.

Chavez threatens military action over Honduras coup

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Sunday put troops on alert after a coup in Honduras and said he would respond militarily if his envoy to the Central American country was kidnapped or killed.
[...]
The socialist Chavez has in the past threatened to use his armed forces in the region but never followed through. He said that if a new government is sworn in after the coup it would be defeated.

"We will bring them down, we will bring them down, I tell you," he said, while hundreds of red-shirted supporters gathered outside Venezuela's presidential palace in solidarity with Zelaya.

[Reuters] Chavez threatens military action over Honduras coup

I doubt Chavez has problems with indefinite term limits either.

 

[rootX]

I knew the guy is in trouble when he decided to kick out the military officer who refused to help him in referendum .

 

[Hans de Vries]

The second coup in a month time, first Iran now Honduras.

The Supreme Court declares a democratic poll "unconstitutional" and the military
big shot throws a democratically chosen president out of the Country.

I'm not in favor of multiple presidencies over extended periods like 10 years.
Power consolidation tends to undermine democracy. But a presidency for more
than a single 4 year period is quite common in some parts of the world...Regards, Hans

 

[chemisttree]

The second coup in a month time, first Iran now Honduras.

The Supreme Court declares a democratic poll "unconstitutional" and the military
big shot throws a democratically chosen president out of the Country.

I'm not in favor of multiple presidencies over extended periods like 10 years.
Power consolidation tends to undermine democracy. But a presidency for more
than a single 4 year period is quite common in some parts of the world...


Regards, Hans

I believe the Supreme Court ruled the referendum itself unconstitutional because it called for changing some clauses in their Constitution that cannot be changed. That is an unusual Constitution to be sure but its the one they have to deal with.

 

[Hans de Vries]

The OP brings back memories of the cold war era. A period which left traumatic
memories in the South American countries ruled by brutal military dictatorships.

It's these memories which bring people like Chavez to power in the first place.
Chavez would been nowhere without Bush reviving bad memories of the past.

Good to see Clinton speaking out firmly in favor of democracy:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31614522#31614522

 

[signerror]

The Supreme Court declares a democratic poll "unconstitutional"

I assume by your sarcasm, that you assert it is not constitutional? I'm not an expert (although I'd say the Honduran Supreme Court qualifies); but here's the text of it, which as I read says that "inciting" an unconstitutional re-election is itself a crime:

ARTICULO 42.- La calidad de ciudadano se pierde:
ARTICLE 42 .- The quality of citizen is lost:
[...]
5. 5. Por incitar, promover o apoyar el continuismo o la reelección del Presidente de la República; y,
Incite, encourage or support the continuity or re-election of President of the Republic, and

[Google Translation] of [Document hosted on Georgetown]

and the military big shot throws a democratically chosen president out of the Country.

This is false. As I already pointed out in the OP - the ouster was ordered by the Supreme Court of Honduras, which presumably is their legitimate function. Unless you dispute the accuracy of the BBC article I linked to, the Honduran military did NOT initiate Zelaya's removal - they carried out what is apparently a lawful order.

Later the Honduran Supreme Court said it had ordered the removal of the president, who had been due to leave office next January.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123126.stm

 

[Hans de Vries]

Obama called the military coup illegal. Apparently understanding the
importance of the symbolism in the relationship between the US and
Latin America which goes far beyond the local power struggle around
Zelaya:

250+ edits in the last few days: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Zelaya

 

[signerror]

Obama called the military coup illegal.

How is this is a military coup? He was impeached from office by the Supreme Court, in response to a highly unconstitutional attempt to hold on to power. The military did not initiate it, NOR did they take power: an acting President was elected by Congress and instated the same day:

Congress swiftly appointed its speaker Roberto Micheletti - a member of Mr Zelaya's Liberal Party, but an opponent of him - as acting head of state.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123126.stm

As far as I've seen, the military did NOTHING except carry out the legal order to arrest and deport Zelaya.

Obama called the military coup illegal.

So what? Do you trust his professor-of-constitutional-law judgment when he calls http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/01/obama-administr/#previouspost , contradicting two federal court rulings and invoking the same arguments as Dick Cheney? When did Obama's legal opinions start mattering?

 

[Hans de Vries]

This is false. As I already pointed out in the OP - the ouster was ordered by the Supreme Court of Honduras, which presumably is their legitimate function. Unless you dispute the accuracy of the BBC article I linked to, the Honduran military did NOT initiate Zelaya's removal - they carried out what is apparently a lawful order.

The fact that the congress voted to approve a fake resignation letter by Zelaya
shows how "serious" we should take this whole military undertaking in terms of
legitimacy, that is, not.

It's up to the people of Honduras to ultimately determine the course of their future.

 

[signerror]

Ousted president alienated many in Honduras

Thousands of Hondurans celebrated in the streets in 2006 when Zelaya won the presidency as a frank-talking populist who lambasted the rich — despite his own wealth — and pledged to combat corruption, poverty and crime.

Those promises remain largely unfulfilled. Corruption has dogged his government with several officials accused of taking kickbacks. He doubled the minimum wage but most businesses have refused to pay it, saying they can't afford it amid a global financial crisis. And violence has surged, rising 25 percent from 2007 to 2008 to make Honduras one of Latin America's deadliest countries.
[...]
He also became increasingly confrontational.

Last year, he refused to submit the government's budget to Congress, fueling accusations that his allies are stealing from the coffers.

His government declared it had the right to monitor phone conversations, though officials say they stopped tapping after a month because of the public outcry.

Zelaya has been embroiled in disputes with media outlets, accusing them of criticizing his government for economic gain, and in 2007 he ordered all radio and TV stations to broadcast his almost daily speeches.
[...]
He now finds himself in exile with virtually no political allies at home. Congress named one of Zelaya's top opponents to replace him — a member of his own party.

Yet many of Honduras' poor remain loyal to Zelaya for his anti-rich rhetoric and words of empowerment.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hpv-J_KpSJAuxrlekfq8-oR00eUwD994IEEG2

Rising dictator. Lucky the constitutional system worked this time.

Note his utter disregard for the free press. Just like Chavez and Castro, the little tyrants hold power by controlling and manipulating the press for their own propaganda.

 

[signerror]

It's up to the people of Honduras to ultimately determine the course of their future.

It seems they have.

He now finds himself in exile with virtually no political allies at home. Congress named one of Zelaya's top opponents to replace him — a member of his own party.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hpv-J_KpSJAuxrlekfq8-oR00eUwD994IEEG2

 

[math_04]

The second coup in a month time, first Iran now Honduras.

What happened in Iran was not similar to Honduras, Iran is a clerical regime controlled by Ayatollah Khamenei. The security apparatus, military, Revolutionary Guard and the local militia are all controlled by him and rely heavily on him as well. The president of Honduras was overthrown in a military coup.

 

[Hans de Vries]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hpv-J_KpSJAuxrlekfq8-oR00eUwD994IEEG2

Rising dictator. Lucky the constitutional system worked this time.

Note his utter disregard for the free press. Just like Chavez and Castro, the little tyrants hold power by controlling and manipulating the press for their own propaganda.

"Honduran army smothers media after coup"
"cut off local broadcasts of international television networks CNN en Espanol"

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN29399379

TEGUCIGALPA, June 29 (Reuters) - Honduras has shut down television and radio stations since an army coup over the weekend, in a media blackout than has drawn condemnation from an international press freedom group.

Shortly after the Honduran military seized President Manuel Zelaya and flew him to Costa Rica on Sunday, soldiers stormed a popular radio station and cut off local broadcasts of international television networks CNN en Espanol and Venezuelan-based Telesur, which is sponsored by leftist governments in South America.

A pro-Zelaya channel also was shut down.

The few television and radio stations still operating on Monday played tropical music or aired soap operas and cooking shows.

They made little reference to the demonstrations or international condemnation of the coup even as hundreds of protesters rallied at the presidential palace in the capital to demand Zelaya's return and an end to the blackout.

Oh, yes. CNN cut off and democracy restored ??! :uhh:

 

[Hans de Vries]

What happened in Iran was not similar to Honduras, Iran is a clerical regime controlled by Ayatollah Khamenei. The security apparatus, military, Revolutionary Guard and the local militia are all controlled by him and rely heavily on him as well. The president of Honduras was overthrown in a military coup.

In both cases there is a power struggle inside the ruling party itself
which gets nasty and which is fought out in public for the popular
vote because there is some form of democracy.

In both cases it's not the popular vote which determines the outcome
but the military\revolutionary guard taking over power on behalf of
those who control it.

 

[math_04]

In both cases there is a power struggle inside the ruling party itself
which gets nasty and which is fought out in public for the popular
vote because there is some form of democracy.

Well, there was a power struggle but that would oversimplify what is happening in Iran.

In both cases it's not the popular vote which determines the outcome
but the military\revolutionary guard taking over power on behalf of
those who control it.

The Revolutionary Guard never took over power over anything, they were just an instrument of control. There is a slight but important difference between taking over power and doing someone's bidding. I agree that both forces are following orders but the Honduras military did launch a coup and depose a president while nothing of the sort happened in Iran. No coup was launched, no president was deposed, they never took over anything. What they did do is crack down on dissent on the streets. The clerics were still in firm control over all the major departments in the country.

 

[Count Iblis]

A difference between Iran and Honduras seems to be that while in Iran the poor rural people support Ahmadinejad and the richer people in urban areas are against him, in Honduras it is the other way around. In case of Hunduras that creates a false impression that the majority supports the coup.

Both cases are similar in the sense that you have a constituton that is problematic and you had someone who wanted to reform the system to make it more democratic, to reign in the power of people who could game the system.

Rising dictator. Lucky the constitutional system worked this time.

Note his utter disregard for the free press. Just like Chavez and Castro, the little tyrants hold power by controlling and manipulating the press for their own propaganda.

The problem in Venezuela and many other latin American countries is the huge polarization in society. What you need to have are reliable unbiased news sources, which we in the West get by means of a "free press". However, what happens if you have a polarized society is that the "free press" doesn't give rise to unbiased news sources. The media are then typically controlled by people who represent big business.


There is no easy solution to this problem. The government taking control of news media is not a ideal solution. In case of Venezuela the situaton was more complicated because there the news media were directly involved in the coup against Chavez.


It is easy for us here in the West to sit back and criticize the actions against the free press. I suspect that the moment we have to deal with similar problems we won't do much better. I think in Spain they have some restrictions on free press because of problems with ETA. They have even banned political parties for that reason.

Another example: Britain refused to let Dutch member of parliament Geert Wilders in the country. We all understand the reasons why that decisions was made, altough many people are against that decision. But this was unthinkable ten years ago.


So, we have a double standard according to which Chavez becomes a dictator if he shuts down a T.V. station that was guilty of inciting violence and was against behind the coup againt him, but if we do not allow Geert Wilders into Britain because that would somehow cause tensions in British society, it is no big deal. Controversial move? Yes, but nothing more than that.

 

[signerror]

Computerized Election Results With No Election

"In Honduras, according to breaking Catalan newspaper reports (translations available, USA Today mention), authorities have seized 45 computers containing certified election results for a constitutional election that never happened. The election had been scheduled for June 28, but on that day the president, Manuel Zelaya, was ousted. The 'certified' and detailed electronic records of the non-existent election show Zelaya's side having won overwhelmingly."

http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/19/1646201/Computerized-Election-Results-With-No-Election

 

[Count Iblis]

http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/19/1646201/Computerized-Election-Results-With-No-Election

ROFLMAO! That's from the same authorities who presented a resignation letter form Zelaya!
:rofl:

Also the fact that they found "computerized results" which are so easy to fake speaks volumes.

 

[Count Iblis]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jAkMGKIUDg_ngUiZboxQbYj5_DPwD99IE2180"

 

[! Amoubag !]

Honduran President a Chavez ally deposed in coup after trying to alter constitution

The newly installed Honduran President claims the military coup that brought him to power saved the country from the shackles of a Chavez-sponsored socialism.

Whats he supposed to say? I always wanted to be President and saw this as my best opportunity?