How do I state 2nd law of thermodynamics for an open system

In summary, ecosystems are open systems that receive solar energy and other materials from outside the ecosystem. The migration of animals is also a common occurrence in these systems. Upon researching, the three books listed - Towards a Thermodynamic Theory for Ecological Systems, Thermodynamics of Non-Equilibrium Processes for Chemists, and Ecosystem Ecology - all discuss the application of thermodynamics in ecosystems. There are balance equations that can be written for energy and entropy, which include transport terms and entropy production terms. It is important to note that for an open system, the second law of thermodynamics still applies.
  • #1
Tyto alba
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Ecosystems are open systems, they receive solar energy and other materials from outside the ecosystem and migration of animals is also witnessed.

I read Physics uptil class XII and have done a bit of research on google books and have come across these three books:

1.Towards a Thermodynamic Theory for Ecological Systems, pg-41

2.Thermodynamics of Non-Equilibrium Processes for Chemists, pg-9

3.Ecosystem Ecology, pg-35

P.S. I couldn't come up with anything statement.
I'm not sure if I posted on the right sub-forum. Let me know if this is suitable to other sub-forums and tell me why do you think so.
 
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  • #2
There is neither 2nd law nor 1st law for an open system.
 
  • #3
You can set up bilance equations for energy entropy etc. The one for entropy contains both transport terms (e.g. when an animal enters or leaves your system) which can be positive and negative and entropy production terms which can only be positive, due to the second law.
 
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  • #4
Demystifier said:
There is neither 2nd law nor 1st law for an open system.
This is not correct.
 
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  • #5
Demystifier said:
There is neither 2nd law nor 1st law for an open system.

Of course there is- usually written as balance equations.
 
  • #6
SanjuktaGhosh said:
Ecosystems are open systems, they receive solar energy and other materials from outside the ecosystem and migration of animals is also witnessed.

I read Physics uptil class XII and have done a bit of research on google books and have come across these three books:

1.Towards a Thermodynamic Theory for Ecological Systems, pg-41

2.Thermodynamics of Non-Equilibrium Processes for Chemists, pg-9

3.Ecosystem Ecology, pg-35

P.S. I couldn't come up with anything statement.
I'm not sure if I posted on the right sub-forum. Let me know if this is suitable to other sub-forums and tell me why do you think so.

As DrDu mentioned, there are balance equations that can be written down, a crude version for entropy is here:

http://www.learnthermo.com/T1-tutorial/ch08/lesson-B/pg04.php
 
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  • #7
Andy Resnick said:
Of course there is- usually written as balance equations.
Thanks for the correction! :woot:
 
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1. What is the second law of thermodynamics for an open system?

The second law of thermodynamics states that in any natural process, the total entropy (or disorder) of a closed system will always increase. In other words, energy in a closed system cannot be completely converted into work, and some energy will always be lost as heat. In an open system, where energy and matter can be exchanged with the surroundings, the second law states that the overall entropy of the universe will always increase.

2. How does the second law of thermodynamics apply to open systems?

The second law of thermodynamics applies to open systems by stating that the total entropy of the system and its surroundings will always increase. This means that in any natural process, the system will become more disordered and less able to do work. In an open system, this can be seen as energy and matter being exchanged with the surroundings, leading to an overall increase in entropy.

3. What is an example of the second law of thermodynamics in an open system?

An example of the second law of thermodynamics in an open system is a car engine. The engine takes in fuel (energy) and converts it into work (movement of the car). However, not all of the energy is converted into work, and some is lost as heat to the surroundings. This leads to an increase in the total entropy of the system and its surroundings.

4. How does the second law of thermodynamics relate to the concept of entropy?

The second law of thermodynamics is closely related to the concept of entropy. Entropy can be thought of as a measure of the disorder or randomness in a system. The second law states that in any natural process, the total entropy of a closed system will always increase. This means that as energy is converted and exchanged in an open system, the overall entropy of the universe will always increase.

5. Can the second law of thermodynamics be violated in an open system?

No, the second law of thermodynamics cannot be violated in an open system. This law is a fundamental principle of nature and applies to all natural processes. While it may seem like a closed system can decrease in entropy, this is only possible if the surrounding environment experiences an even greater increase in entropy. Therefore, the second law of thermodynamics will always hold true in an open system.

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