Is the Higgs field in its present form phlogiston-like?

In summary: We're even.In summary, the conversation discusses the parallels between the concept of phlogiston leading to the discovery of oxygen and the Higgs field and Higgs mechanism leading to the discovery of the Higgs boson. It questions whether the Higgs field and mechanism are also imaginary and if there could be a different theory that reproduces the same results. The conversation also delves into the idea of the strangeness of the Higgs field and the relevance of this concept in nature. It is ultimately suggested that this thread should be moved to another subforum or closed due to the disagreement over a minus sign in the Lagrangian.
  • #1
Prishon
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Phlogiston lead to the discovery of oxygen but was later on proven to be imaginary. Can the same be said of the quite strange Higgs field and Higgs mechanism following from the strange Mexican hat potential? Is that potential just imaginary? It lead to the discovery of the eponimous particle, true. But what about the Higgs field (in its present form) and the Higgs mechanism?
 
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  • #2
Could we think we're right but actually be wrong, with the correct theory - which nobody has even imagined yet - reproducing all the results of the present incorrect theory?

I guess.
 
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  • #3
Vanadium 50 said:
Could we think we're right but actually be wrong, with the correct theory - which nobody has even imagined yet - reproducing all the results of the present incorrect theory?

I guess.
In this case I think not. If you consider the "normal" Higgs field (with normal potential energy values for all field configurations) as real there will not result the non-existing Higgs mechanism. It will lead to different interpretations of the Higgs particles and quarks/leptons (and possibly W/Z particles). But history went differently.
 
  • #4
Vanadium 50 said:
Could we think we're right but actually be wrong, with the correct theory - which nobody has even imagined yet - reproducing all the results of the present incorrect theory?

I guess.
Including solving the non-unitarity of collissions including W-bosons by the degrees of of freedom left in the Higgs field after the spontaneous symmetry breaking in the guise of a scalar particle.

So even if the Higgs mechanism is wrong, Nature still demands a scalar particle.
 
  • #5
Prishon said:
Phlogiston lead to the discovery of oxygen but was later on proven to be imaginary. Can the same be said of the quite strange Higgs field...
According to which criteria is this "strange"? Why would Nature care about the notion of strangeness of some apes who evolved mainly to eat, beat and reproduce?
 
  • #6
Besides, since Higgs boson has been experimentally found, and Higgs field and Higgs mechanism in its present form are considered to be a part of the Standard Model, not some "beyond" models, shouldn't this thread be moved to another subforum?
 
  • #7
weirdoguy said:
shouldn't this thread be moved to another subforum?

This thread should be closed. The OP doesn't like a minus sign in the Lagrangian. I don't like Brussels sprouts.
 
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1. What is the Higgs field?

The Higgs field is a theoretical concept in physics that is thought to give particles their mass. It is a fundamental field that permeates all of space and is believed to interact with particles, causing them to have mass.

2. How is the Higgs field related to phlogiston?

The Higgs field and phlogiston are two completely separate concepts. Phlogiston was a theory proposed in the 17th and 18th century to explain combustion, while the Higgs field is a modern concept in particle physics. There is no connection between the two.

3. Is the Higgs field proven to exist?

The existence of the Higgs field has not been directly proven, but there is strong evidence for its existence based on experiments conducted at the Large Hadron Collider. The discovery of the Higgs boson in 2012 also supports the existence of the Higgs field.

4. What is meant by the "present form" of the Higgs field?

The "present form" of the Higgs field refers to its current state or understanding in the field of particle physics. As with any scientific theory, the concept of the Higgs field may evolve and change as more research and experiments are conducted.

5. Why is the comparison to phlogiston important?

The comparison to phlogiston is important because it highlights the difference between outdated scientific theories and modern ones. Phlogiston was eventually disproven, while the Higgs field is a well-supported theory that is still being studied and refined. This comparison also emphasizes the importance of continued research and experimentation in the scientific community.

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