Magnetic Field, Field Intensity and Magnetisation

In summary, the conversation discussed the calculation of ##\vec H##, ##\vec B##, and ##\vec M## using Ampere's Law and the relationship between them for a thin current carrying wire. The conversation also pointed out a mistake in the calculation of ##\vec M## and discussed the implications of the curl of ##\vec M## being zero for all ##s\neq 0##. The conversation concluded with a comparison to a similar problem involving a cylindrical wire.
  • #1
Mr_Allod
42
16
Homework Statement
A conducting wire is placed along the z axis, carries a current I in the +z direction and
is embedded in a nonconducting magnetic material with permeability ##\mu##. Find the
magnitude and direction of ##\vec H##, ##\vec B##, ##\vec M## and the equivalent current ##\vec J_b## at the point (x,0,0).
Relevant Equations
Ampere's Law: ##\oint \vec B \cdot d\vec l##
##\vec H## and ##\vec B## Relation: ##\vec H = \frac 1 \mu_0 \vec B - \vec M##
Permeability: ##\mu = \mu_0 (1+ \chi_m)##
Magnetisation: ##\vec M = \chi_m \vec H##
Hello there, I've worked through this problem and I would just like to check whether I've understood it correctly. I found ##\vec H##, ##\vec B## and ##\vec M## using Ampere's Law and the above relations as I would for any thin current carrying wire and these were my answers:
$$\vec H = \frac I {2\pi s} \hat \phi$$ $$\vec B = \frac {\mu I} {2\pi s} \hat \phi$$ $$\vec M = \chi_m \frac I{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$

For the point (x,0,0) I would simply swap ##x## for ##s##.

Then using ##\vec J_b = \nabla \times \vec M## I tried to calculate ##\vec J_b##. All but one of the terms of the cross product evaluate to 0 leaving:
$$\vec J_b = \frac 1 s \frac \partial {\partial s}(s M_\phi) \hat z = \frac 1 s \frac \partial {\partial s}(s \chi_m \frac {\mu I}{2\pi s}) \hat z$$

Which as it turns out also evaluates to 0. This leads me to believe I must have misunderstood something about the question since I don't expect I would be asked to find ##\vec J_b## if it was simply 0. If somebody could help me figure out what I've done wrong I'd appreciate it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Without comparing any of the equations to what we know about electromagnetic theory, we can see there must be an error in the first part, as substituting your formula for ##\vec{\mathit H}## into your magnetisation equation gives
$$\vec M = \chi_m \frac {I}{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$
whereas you have written
$$\vec M = \chi_m \frac {\mu I}{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$

Since the problem did not specify that ##\mu=1##, at least one of those two must be wrong.
 
  • #3
andrewkirk said:
Without comparing any of the equations to what we know about electromagnetic theory, we can see there must be an error in the first part, as substituting your formula for ##\vec{\mathit H}## into your magnetisation equation gives
$$\vec M = \chi_m \frac {I}{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$
whereas you have written
$$\vec M = \chi_m \frac {\mu I}{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$

Since the problem did not specify that ##\mu=1##, at least one of those two must be wrong.

Yes you are quite right, I accidentally put in the result for ##\vec B## instead of ##\vec H## when I wrote the expression for ##\vec M##. Thank you for pointing that out, I have edited it to make it correct.
 
  • #4
It still contains algebraic errors.

Add your formulas for ##\vec H## and ##\vec M## together, then multiply by ##\mu_0## to get a formula for ##\vec B##. That formula doesn't match the formula for ##\vec B## you have written above, and again both can't be correct unless ##\mu = 1##, which is not given.
 
  • #5
I'm sorry but I don't see what you mean. Applying your correction and doing as you say:
$$\vec H + \vec M = \frac I {2\pi s} \hat \phi + \chi_m \frac I{2\pi s} \hat \phi = (1 + \chi_m) \frac I{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$
Multiplying by ##\mu_0##:
$$\mu_0(\vec H + \vec M) = \mu_0 (1 + \chi_m) \frac I{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$

Which gives the expression for ##\vec B##:
$$\vec B = \frac {\mu I} {2\pi s} \hat \phi = \mu_0 (1 + \chi_m) \frac I{2\pi s} \hat \phi$$
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2
  • #6
I think you correctly calculate the curl of ##\vec{M}## as zero for all ##s\neq 0##.

My only concern is what happens when ##s=0##. Is it ##|\vec{M}|=\infty ##and ##|\vec{J_b}|=\infty ## for ##s=0##?
 
  • Like
Likes Mr_Allod
  • #7
Delta2 said:
I think you correctly calculate the curl of ##\vec{M}## as zero for all ##s\neq 0##.

My only concern is what happens when ##s=0##. Is it ##|\vec{M}|=\infty ##and ##|\vec{J_b}|=\infty ## for ##s=0##?
Yes you are right that is a problem in this case. I think it's because the wire is taken to be infinitely thin in this question. A different but very similar problem I have done before involves a cylindrical wire of radius ##a## and magnetic susceptibility ##\chi_m## where the current density inside the wire is proportional to the radius. For that problem I calculated:
$$\vec J_b = \chi_m I \frac {3s}{2\pi a^3} \hat \phi$$
Which would have ## \left|\vec J_b \right|\rightarrow 0## as ##s \rightarrow 0##, avoiding that issue.
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2

1. What is a magnetic field?

A magnetic field is an invisible force that surrounds a magnet or a current-carrying wire. It is created by the movement of electrically charged particles, such as electrons, and exerts a force on other charged particles within its vicinity.

2. How is the strength of a magnetic field measured?

The strength of a magnetic field is measured using a unit called Tesla (T). This unit is a measure of the amount of force exerted by the field on a charged particle. Another commonly used unit is Gauss (G), with 1 T = 10,000 G.

3. What is the difference between magnetic field intensity and magnetization?

Magnetic field intensity (H) is a measure of the strength of the magnetic field created by a current-carrying wire or a magnet. It is measured in amperes per meter (A/m). On the other hand, magnetization (M) is a measure of the extent to which a material can be magnetized. It is measured in amperes per meter (A/m) or in magnetization per unit volume (A/m^2).

4. How does magnetization affect the strength of a magnetic field?

The strength of a magnetic field is directly proportional to the magnetization of a material. This means that the stronger the magnetization, the stronger the magnetic field. However, the strength of the magnetic field also depends on other factors such as the shape and size of the magnet.

5. What are some real-life applications of magnetic fields and magnetization?

Magnetic fields and magnetization have numerous real-life applications. Some examples include electric motors, generators, MRI machines, magnetic levitation trains, compasses, and hard disk drives. They are also used in various industries such as electronics, transportation, and medical imaging.

Similar threads

  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
3
Views
210
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
25
Views
285
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
12
Views
209
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
194
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
17
Views
404
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
135
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
356
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
3
Views
153
Back
Top