Mall Madness: Why Do They Stay Open During Hazardous Weather?

[gravenewworld]

On Thursday afternoon, we got heavy snow all afternoon and into the night. We got about 7 inches of snow, but the roads were completely snow covered. Cars on the highway were only going as fast as 18 mph and they were sliding all over the place. What does the mall do? Stay open despite there being five people in the mall. Several stores including JCPenney closed early, but overall the mall stayed open.

Tonight and into Monday morning we're going to have a winter storm that's worse than the one we got on Thursday. Actually it's being classified as a Nor Easter. 5-10" of snow, plus a quarter to a half inch of ice on top of it. And don't forget heavy winds too. Will the mall be smart and close before it opens? Or will they be idiots, open, see one person roam the mall all day and wait until it's damn near impossible to drive before closing? Actually by the time morning rolls around it will already be damn near impossible to drive anywhere. But I doubt that will stop them.

Why are the people that run malls so stupid when it comes to hazardous weather?

Last year on Valentines Day we had the worst snow storm of the year. Over a foot of snow with city buses even getting stuck on the snowy roads. Did the malls decide to close before opening? Nope, in fact they stayed open until 2PM when all the employee cars were pretty much buried in snow.

I understand it's the holiday season and they need to make money, but when there's hazardous weather nobody is going to drive to the mall! If it was a ghost town on Thursday afternoon can you imagine what it's going to be like tomorrow?

And besides, the mall was so packed it was like a second version of Black Friday today. Nobody is going to go out tomorrow. Please someone explain any hint of rationale behind opening the mall regardless.

welcome to the corporate world. my company NEVER gives off for snow even when PA declared a state of emergency and said that only people going to and from hospitals and emergency vehicles were allowed on the road. everyone has to use a vacation day in order to avoid driving in the snow.

 

[BobG]

Did they have tire chains on, or blindfolds? So what happened to the Pepsi truck?

This reminds me of a time in Arizona during a heavy rain. The wash right near the house was flowing across the road. There was a VW bug on the other side who wanted to cross and decided to risk crossing. He made it halfway across before he started floating away on the current.

The Pepsi truck? Just like a Newton's cradle. Except cars compress so it was more like an accordion. The string compresses, then expands, then compresses again before the Pepsi truck's momentum can be completely stopped. But everyone winds up a lot further down the hill making room for more cars to try.

 

[JasonRox]

What?

I went shopping today near Toronto with like 10 inches of snow atleast and lots of people were at the mall. The roads were no wear near plowed, but everyone is still driving around.

I went out for lunch and diner and chilled. Then I drove home like an hour drive but more like 2 today.

 

[NeoDevin]

Yep, here in edmonton it's the same way, the city doesn't stop no matter how much snow is on the ground.

Then there are places like Vancouver where the whole city shuts down after any snow at all.

 

[LightbulbSun]

What?

I went shopping today near Toronto with like 10 inches of snow atleast and lots of people were at the mall. The roads were no wear near plowed, but everyone is still driving around.

I went out for lunch and diner and chilled. Then I drove home like an hour drive but more like 2 today.

Do you drive a large pickup truck?

 

[LightbulbSun]

I just think it's futile that malls open during hazardous winter weather. I've heard from people today that nobody was in the mall. It'd be one thing if people were willing to risk their lives and flock to the mall. But it's another if you open, have no one show up and risk the lives of the employees. It wasn't just snow, there was ice mixed with it too and that makes driving conditions even more hazardous. I know businesses need to make profit on a daily basis, but I don't think they should risk lives in the process either.

 

[mgb_phys]

Then there are places like Vancouver where the whole city shuts down after any snow at all.

Do you mind - there was 1-2 cm! Do you know what that does to a Smart Car?
I had to brush snow of the driveway, and it was nearly to the top of my Tevas!

 

[Huckleberry]

Yep, here in edmonton it's the same way, the city doesn't stop no matter how much snow is on the ground.

Then there are places like Vancouver where the whole city shuts down after any snow at all.

Road conditions will vary from place to place depending on how that road is maintained. If snow comes unexpectedly then it will have time to accumulate before the plows can remove it. If the roads are not salted then, depending on weather conditions, the snow can be compacted into a sheet of ice over the roads. So the difference in road conditions between a place like Massachusetts, where snow is fairly common, and a place like Oregon, where it isn't expected at lower elevations so much, can vary quite a bit. It's not the 10th inch of snow that makes the road dangerous. It's the 1st one that sticks to it. Before I moved to Oregon I felt confident about my ability to drive in snow, but after coming here I feel that road maintenance and good planning are more important than driver experience. Sometimes staying off the road is the best idea.

 

[scorpa]

Over here we have West Edmonton Mall, I think it's now the second biggest mall in the world (I heard they built a bigger one in asia somewhere). The mall itself stays open 24/7/365 (366 on leap years). There is a hotel in there, as well as a couple of bars, and so the mall can't close, even though all the stores are closed.

Edit: On the mall's website they are still claiming to be the largest, so maybe not. Or maybe they just haven't gotten around to updating the website yet.

Edit2: A quick google search turned up http://www.easternct.edu/depts/amerst/MallsWorld.htm" , which says we are now third...

Yuck I have nothing but hatred for that mall, especially during christmas time...it is hell! And yet I still go there :( And yeah I don't think it has been the biggest for a few years now.

 

[Moonbear]

Road conditions will vary from place to place depending on how that road is maintained. If snow comes unexpectedly then it will have time to accumulate before the plows can remove it. If the roads are not salted then, depending on weather conditions, the snow can be compacted into a sheet of ice over the roads. So the difference in road conditions between a place like Massachusetts, where snow is fairly common, and a place like Oregon, where it isn't expected at lower elevations so much, can vary quite a bit. It's not the 10th inch of snow that makes the road dangerous. It's the 1st one that sticks to it. Before I moved to Oregon I felt confident about my ability to drive in snow, but after coming here I feel that road maintenance and good planning are more important than driver experience. Sometimes staying off the road is the best idea.

The amount of hills or mountains also matters. A light dusting of snow here makes the roads nearly impassable (they also don't use salt much here, just coal ash to try to add traction, but does nothing on ice) because of how steep the road grades are. In contrast, when I lived in MI, there seemed to be another inch of snow every day for about a month, with the occasional heavy snowstorm, and none of that really bothered me at all, because the roads were really flat and straight. Even if they didn't clear the roads right away, it wasn't a big deal there. And when I lived in NJ, while the main roads weren't bad, I could never get out of my neighborhood when it snowed because there were two steep hills either of the two directions I could go to get from my house to the main roads. Those hills became impassable with very little snow on them, and there was no way to get a running start at them.

 

[NeoDevin]

Yuck I have nothing but hatred for that mall, especially during christmas time...it is hell! And yet I still go there :( And yeah I don't think it has been the biggest for a few years now.

Really? I love the place. As long as I leave the wife and baby at home, I can squeeze through the crowds pretty good, get in and out of the stores quickly with whatever I need. And I can get everything in one place. There's not too much that you can't find there. More recently we bought the attractions passes, and so every weekend we go swimming, and go on the slides, it's lots of fun, good way to unwind at the end of the week.

 

[DaveC426913]

What?

I went shopping today near Toronto with like 10 inches of snow atleast and lots of people were at the mall. The roads were no wear near plowed, but everyone is still driving around.

I went out for lunch and diner and chilled. Then I drove home like an hour drive but more like 2 today.

Do you drive a large pickup truck?

Yeah, I think I saw him too!

 

[LightbulbSun]

Yeah, I think I saw him too!

He was all smug in his big, bad truck. How dare he?!

 

[LightbulbSun]

The snow was compacted into a sheet of ice on my road and on my driveway. The streets are a mess. Schools in my area were delayed for a couple of hours because of it.

 

[scorpa]

Really? I love the place. As long as I leave the wife and baby at home, I can squeeze through the crowds pretty good, get in and out of the stores quickly with whatever I need. And I can get everything in one place. There's not too much that you can't find there. More recently we bought the attractions passes, and so every weekend we go swimming, and go on the slides, it's lots of fun, good way to unwind at the end of the week.

Ugh I went there ONCE during Christmas and it was it's own little Christmas hell. I usually end up going there vs. the other malls though just because it does have EVERYTHING. If you can't find it at that mall you probably don't need it. But I still don't like it. I have an attraction pass to the place that let's me get into to two places free like galaxyland and the waterpark that I got like 4 months ago and still need to use.

 

[BobG]

Do you mind - there was 1-2 cm! Do you know what that does to a Smart Car?
I had to brush snow of the driveway, and it was nearly to the top of my Tevas!

Wearing Tevas in snow is a major fashion faux pas. You should wear winter sandals - especially when the snow's deep enough to shovel.

Trust me, I know. You can tell someone is from Colorado because they wear shorts, sandals, and a parka in the winter - and sometimes in the summer, too. It can snow in the summer at the higher elevations.

 

[NeoDevin]

Ugh I went there ONCE during Christmas and it was it's own little Christmas hell. I usually end up going there vs. the other malls though just because it does have EVERYTHING. If you can't find it at that mall you probably don't need it. But I still don't like it. I have an attraction pass to the place that let's me get into to two places free like galaxyland and the waterpark that I got like 4 months ago and still need to use.

We got the 6 month ones, so we can go as many times as we want. One good thing about the christmas season is that the water park is pretty deserted, which means no lineups for slides.

 

[JasonRox]

Yeah, I think I saw him too!

I was driving a little Honda Civic.

 

[ShawnD]

Here's some video of that snowstorm. I don't remember this sort of thing happening in New England, where the plows are running before the snow stops falling, and the roads are salted thoroughly.

Yikes. I don't think I have ever seen roads that bad.

It seems like the roads are a lot worse in places that have warm weather. I live in an area where it snows and stays cold the rest of the season, so there isn't a lot of ice, but there is lots of fluid snow that is easily plowed. One of my friends spent a year in Ottawa and he said the roads were all ice all the time. There was one time where he tried to drive to work, but he couldn't move because his tires were literally frozen to the ground. He had to break the ice off the tires using a tire iron.

 

[mgb_phys]

Wearing Tevas in snow is a major fashion faux pas. You should wear winter sandals - especially when the snow's deep enough to shovel.

Thanks for that - I will get some of those for skiing.

 

[JasonRox]

Last year here in the Portland area there was a few inches of snow on the ground that was left unplowed for a day or two. Within hours it had been packed down by vehicles into a sheet of ice that covered the roads. Even people with tire chains were sliding around. I went for a walk to the store and saw three accidents along the way, one of which involved 3 cars. People just don't know when they shouldn't be on the roads.

Here's some video of that snowstorm. I don't remember this sort of thing happening in New England, where the plows are running before the snow stops falling, and the roads are salted thoroughly.

Those drivers suck ass. We get way more snow than that and I've never seen anything that bad around here. Good god they suck.

I went on the highway yesterday and still managed to average 60mph in Southern Ontario. Stay in the tracks and avoid touching the damn freaking brakes in the snow.

It's funny though because some cab drivers were passing me.

I have pictures of how bad it was. I have a picture of being parked in the middle of the highway completed covered in snow. I thought it would be fun to chill out on the highway since I was like the only one on it.

 

[Huckleberry]

Those drivers suck ass. We get way more snow than that and I've never seen anything that bad around here. Good god they suck.

I went on the highway yesterday and still managed to average 60mph in Southern Ontario. Stay in the tracks and avoid touching the damn freaking brakes in the snow.

It's funny though because some cab drivers were passing me.

I have pictures of how bad it was. I have a picture of being parked in the middle of the highway completed covered in snow. I thought it would be fun to chill out on the highway since I was like the only one on it.

Haha, yeah. Those driver's do suck ass. They shouldn't have been out in the first place.

The actual snowfall wasn't very much at all, perhaps 3 - 5 inches. Because the city waited several hours before they even started plowing the snow was compacted into a sheet of ice by the passing vehicles. All the roads were covered in ice. My point was that no matter how comfortable someone feels driving in snow, if the city isn't prepared to maintain road conditions then any place can become like this. I knew enough about driving in snow to not even bother trying to successfully manuever a 3000 pound vehicle on roads made of ice. Apparently, as shown in the video, some people don't realize this.

Cities in warmer climates might be more prone to poor handling of cold weather events. I remember in Virginia, waking up to about an inch of frozen rain. It covered everything. It was so bad I couldn't even walk without falling down. Power lines and tree limbs were falling down from the weight of the ice. Still, people were driving. I hate to think that many people were in dire enough emergency to be compelled to risk their lives and others to get to their destination. They must have worked at the mall.

 

[Moonbear]

Here's some video of that snowstorm. I don't remember this sort of thing happening in New England, where the plows are running before the snow stops falling, and the roads are salted thoroughly.

Wow, I just got a chance to watch that video. It's like pinball with cars! Was there a steep hill there that you can't see with the angle of the video? Even once the cars turned sideways, they skidded a LONG time. Though, I don't know why you'd head down that road looking at the carnage below. People around here drive me crazy with stupid moves in snow too. As I've mentioned a million times, we have very steep, curving mountain roads. When it snows, there's a good chance that no matter how slow you go, you might skid on the way down, and there's a good chance you can't go fast enough to get all the way to the top going up the hills. So, the best thing to do is just let one car at a time head up or down a hill and everyone else just wait until they're clear before the next one goes...that way if they slide or turn sideways or get stuck, you 1) don't skid into them and 2) don't get stuck with them. It never fails that there's someone tailgating up and down hills. What are they thinking?! I've seen plenty of cars start up the hill in front of my house only to hit the one steep spot and wind up sideways, or sliding right back down backward (they'll still have the tire in drive trying to go forward, but the car is going backward), or if they're really unlucky, they wind up skidding into the ditch on the side of the road.

So, sometimes it's bad drivers and some people just need to know they should NEVER drive in the snow. But, sometimes, it's that the snow has packed to ice.

The problem we have here is that it's often not cold enough for the snow to stick when it first starts falling, so it melts on the pavement and gets it all wet, then as the temperature drops overnight, that water layer freezes underneath the snow layer. Sometimes it's better if they don't plow the roads under those conditions, because at least the snow offers some traction while plowing and exposing the ice eliminates any chance.

My first year here, we also had a storm where the snow fell, the sun came out, melted it partway to create slush, then overnight the temperature dropped way below freezing, created a nice thick layer of packed ice, and it remained cold enough that salt just wasn't sufficient to melt it. The snow wasn't so bad, but the next several days of ice were impossible to drive on. If the snow hadn't fallen until the weather turned so cold, it wouldn't have been a big deal at all, because it would have all stayed pretty fluffly and easy to clear or drive on, but that ice from a partial melt before the deep freeze was horrid.

 

[Huckleberry]

Wow, I just got a chance to watch that video. It's like pinball with cars! Was there a steep hill there that you can't see with the angle of the video?

I'm not familiar with that particular road, but I'm assuming there was some sort of slope there. Some of the cars were sliding completely sideways. The roads were like that everywhere that I saw. I went for a walk over a mile that day and the entire length of the road was like that. There were no icy patches, just one big skating rink.

It never fails that there's someone tailgating up and down hills. What are they thinking?!

Sounds like a normal day to me. If they aren't reasonable enough not do this under good conditions then at least I know the motive isn't malice when they do it in bad conditions. That's reassuring, isn't it? I mean, if I'm going to be in an accident, I'd rather it be with someone who wasn't thinking than someone who likes to harm people.

edit - well, I guess they could be both. Oh well

 

[JasonRox]

Haha, yeah. Those driver's do suck ass. They shouldn't have been out in the first place.

The actual snowfall wasn't very much at all, perhaps 3 - 5 inches. Because the city waited several hours before they even started plowing the snow was compacted into a sheet of ice by the passing vehicles. All the roads were covered in ice. My point was that no matter how comfortable someone feels driving in snow, if the city isn't prepared to maintain road conditions then any place can become like this. I knew enough about driving in snow to not even bother trying to successfully manuever a 3000 pound vehicle on roads made of ice. Apparently, as shown in the video, some people don't realize this.

Cities in warmer climates might be more prone to poor handling of cold weather events. I remember in Virginia, waking up to about an inch of frozen rain. It covered everything. It was so bad I couldn't even walk without falling down. Power lines and tree limbs were falling down from the weight of the ice. Still, people were driving. I hate to think that many people were in dire enough emergency to be compelled to risk their lives and others to get to their destination. They must have worked at the mall.

Yeah, and those people pay as the video displayed.

 

[turbo]

About 10-12 years ago, I was driving my best buddy back home after he had corrective eye surgery, and the traffic on I-95 had come to a stop. We were in my Nissan Pathfinder, and I had seen no problems, other than a little drizzle on the windshield. I got out of the vehicle, and immediately went flat on my back - wet black ice. I had to grab the door-sill, haul myself up grabbing the door-handle, etc to get back into the vehicle. There were no chain-reaction crashes, etc. We just waited until a state maintenance truck came through spreading salted sand, then we resumed our trip home.

 

[turbo]

Yeah, and those people pay as the video displayed.

UH, JR, you just hit 2000, dissing Portland drivers.

 

[JasonRox]

I sure did hit 2000! I think I got it last night!

 

[Huckleberry]

About 10-12 years ago, I was driving my best buddy back home after he had corrective eye surgery, and the traffic on I-95 had come to a stop. We were in my Nissan Pathfinder, and I had seen no problems, other than a little drizzle on the windshield. I got out of the vehicle, and immediately went flat on my back - wet black ice. I had to grab the door-sill, haul myself up grabbing the door-handle, etc to get back into the vehicle. There were no chain-reaction crashes, etc. We just waited until a state maintenance truck came through spreading salted sand, then we resumed our trip home.

I can't help but think that if aliens were watching our planet one of them would make the statement,"Some of these tool-using primates exhibit different learned behaviours varying by geographic region." I wonder what life would be like if learning from the mistakes of others were more commonplace.

At least the drivers here are generally more courteous than what I have experienced on the east coast. I don't have to push my nose into an intersection to get where I need to go.

Congrats on 2000, JR!

 

[LightbulbSun]

Those drivers suck ass. We get way more snow than that and I've never seen anything that bad around here. Good god they suck.

I went on the highway yesterday and still managed to average 60mph in Southern Ontario. Stay in the tracks and avoid touching the damn freaking brakes in the snow.

It's funny though because some cab drivers were passing me.

I have pictures of how bad it was. I have a picture of being parked in the middle of the highway completed covered in snow. I thought it would be fun to chill out on the highway since I was like the only one on it.

I don't hit the brakes like an idiot in bad weather, but if I go 60mph on the snow with my car I am guaranteed to spin out.