Marinating meat is a waste of time

[BWV]

Other than a brine, which will penetrate and tenderize meat, marinating does nothing:

DW: This is the best thing – when we're not believed – because, of course, we back everything up with science. Years ago, we started feeling like marinating doesn't seem do much, particularly when you're doing chicken or meat – which are the things people marinate most often. We decided to do an experiment. We took boneless skinless chicken breasts in four different marinades: soy, yogurt, red wine, and lemon and garlic. We left them in there for 18 hours. After that time, the marinade had penetrated less than between 1-3 millimeters, which is less than a tenth of an inch, and that's after 18 hours. We took the chicken breasts, shaved off the amount the marinade had gone in – the outer three milliliters – and roasted them along with other chicken breasts that had not been marinated. We had people taste them. No one could taste any difference at all.

FL: Wait, what?

DW: It was a blind tasting with a large panel of 30 testers. The only way you could taste any difference was if you tasted one that had not had that little tiny bit shaved off. Even then there was only a faint difference. Again, this was after 18 hours in marinade.

FL: That’s a long time.

DW: It's a long time; and no one wants to marinate anything that long. All marinating does is put a tiny bit of flavor on the outside part of whatever it is you're marinating. The other thing people say is that marinating tenderizes things. If you use acid – or the other thing people often use is papaya juice – theoretically, it will tenderize the meat, but only to the same depth as those marinades penetrated. All it does is make the outside mushy. No matter how long you marinate, you're only going to get mushy exterior and a tiny bit of flavor on the outside. It’s much better to skip marinating. Instead, cook the food and then put the flavor on it afterwards.

https://www.splendidtable.org/story...s-test-kitchen-marinating-basting-and-boiling

Article also says basting Turkeys is pointless

 

[Evo]

I knew basting was pretty worthless unless you just want to keep the outside wet, a tight cover or aluminum foil will do better, just don't keep opening them.

Marinades, yeah, they just give flavor to the outside, maybe break down the outside couple of millimeters. I haven't marinated in decades, don't even own a baster.

 

[berkeman]

I always pierce the meat multiple times with a fork when marinating. Doesn't everybody? Sheesh.

 

[BWV]

I always pierce the meat multiple times with a fork when marinating. Doesn't everybody? Sheesh.

Doesnt that risk drying the meat out? You want the juices to stay in. Probably could get better results with an injector.

 

[russ_watters]

The overall point doesn't surprise me, but this part confuses me:

"It’s much better to skip marinating. Instead, cook the food and then put the flavor on it afterwards."

Doesn't cooking with the marinade/sauce reduce and caramelize or otherwise "cook it on" the meat?

I've recently gotten into Sous Vide, and whether you are into marinating or not, it seemed obvious to skip that step, since you can soak/seal the meat with the marinate while cooking it for an hour. After cooking, I sear the meat and further cook the juices/marinate in a separate frying pan.

 

[berkeman]

Doesnt that risk drying the meat out? You want the juices to stay in. Probably could get better results with an injector.

-Put marinade in pan
-Put meat in pan in marinade (marinade reaches up about 20% of the way up the meat
-Pierce an array of holes deep into the top side of the meat with a 4-prong fork
-Add dry seasonings to the pierced top side of the meat (garlic powder, etc)
-Turn meat over, pierce and dry season again
-Turn meat over again to get wet with marinade + seasonings on both sides
-Turn meat in marinade every 20 minutes or so until cooking time (BBQ, Oven Roast, Pan Fry, etc.)

Mmm. I'm getting hungry...

 

[TeethWhitener]

Key passage (emphasis mine):

We took the chicken breasts, shaved off the amount the marinade had gone in – the outer three milliliters – and roasted them along with other chicken breasts that had not been marinated. We had people taste them. No one could taste any difference at all.

Sugar does nothing. I took Koolaid, distilled the water off, and served the distillate alongside ordinary distilled water. No one could taste any difference at all.

 

[russ_watters]

-Put marinade in pan
-Put meat in pan in marinade (marinade reaches up about 20% of the way up the meat
-Pierce an array of holes deep into the top side of the meat with a 4-prong fork
-Add dry seasonings to the pierced top side of the meat (garlic powder, etc)
-Turn meat over, pierce and dry season again
-Turn meat over again to get wet with marinade + seasonings on both sides
-Turn meat in marinade every 20 minutes or so until cooking time (BBQ, Oven Roast, Pan Fry, etc.)

Continued:

• Put meat on plate.
• Pour marinade into bowl next to plate.
• Dip meat in marinade before eating.

 

[BWV]

The overall point doesn't surprise me, but this part confuses me:

Doesn't cooking with the marinade/sauce reduce and caramelize or otherwise "cook it on" the meat?

I've recently gotten into Sous Vide, and whether you are into marinating or not, it seemed obvious to skip that step, since you can soak/seal the meat with the marinate while cooking it for an hour. After cooking, I sear the meat and further cook the juices/marinate in a separate frying pan.

I guess it depends what you are trying to do - if its just adding spices ISTM a dry rub then searing in a hot pan is the way to go. Then can make the sauce separately with the liquid from the sous vide bag

 

[berkeman]

LOL Russ.

So slightly off topic, but maybe with the folks this thread attracts, I can get some suggestions.

Way back in high school in Calistoga (Northern California), there was a restaurant downtown that served the most incredible prime rib that I've ever had. The head chef ("Chefki") had some recipe for preparing and aging the meat so that the cooked prime rib was amazing. The flavor and tenderness were unique, and I've never been able to reproduce it or find it elsewhere.

So if marinating alone (even with magic fork holes) doesn't reproduce Chefki's prime rib, are there other meat preparation techniques that can enhance the final flavor?

 

[Office_Shredder]

Key passage (emphasis mine):

Sugar does nothing. I took Koolaid, distilled the water off, and served the distillate alongside ordinary distilled water. No one could taste any difference at all.

It still makes the point that it only flavors the exterior of the meat. Some people think it will flavor the interior, and so is worth the effort

 

[TeethWhitener]

It still makes the point that it only flavors the exterior of the meat. Some people think it will flavor the interior, and so is worth the effort

Some people also believe in homeopathy.

 

[Office_Shredder]

Some people also believe in homeopathy.

Also, the memory of the water will retain a negative image of the sugar molecules, which activates your taste receptors almost as well as the sugar itself. You should be able to tell the difference.

 

[DaveE]

What this thread is totally missing is the human psychology part. Food rarely comes without a story. People like the story too, but will claim it's flavor. Hence the blind testing in the OP.

Go ahead marinate that sucker. I suggest using ancient Himalayan salt, it's so much better than the salt from today's seas. But make sure you tell everyone first!

 

[russ_watters]

What this thread is totally missing is the human psychology part. Food rarely comes without a story...

Go ahead marinate that sucker. I suggest using ancient Himalayan salt, it's so much better than the salt from today's seas. But make sure you tell everyone first!

True story. Since I'm a dude, I don't pay attention to what mundane things cost. Every year (sans COVID) I spend a week at the Outer Banks with a group of friends, and the first person to arrive at the house (usually the one who booked it) starts off the grocery shopping. 5 years or so ago it was my turn. Salt is, of course, part of the critical infrastructure, and I bought a quality-looking 8oz shaker of Sea Salt to meet the need. Little did I realize it cost upwards of $8, and everyone else apparently knows that's not what salt should cost. Now it's basically a meme and I unapologetically bring it every year. The year I bought it, I made sure to make it a [negative] line-item in the spreadsheet to calculate everyone's tab for the week.

 

[DaveE]

True story. Since I'm a dude, I don't pay attention to what mundane things cost. Every year (sans COVID) I spend a week at the Outer Banks with a group of friends, and the first person to arrive at the house (usually the one who booked it) starts off the grocery shopping. 5 years or so ago it was my turn. Salt is, of course, part of the critical infrastructure, and I bought a quality-looking 8oz shaker of Sea Salt to meet the need. Little did I realize it cost upwards of $8, and everyone else apparently knows that's not what salt should cost. Now it's basically a meme and I unapologetically bring it every year. The year I bought it, I made sure to make it a [negative] line-item in the spreadsheet to calculate everyone's tab for the week.
View attachment 278980

It's probably the "non-GMO" part. You definitely don't want the GMO version of NaCl.

 

[russ_watters]

It's probably the "non-GMO" part. You definitely don't want the GMO version of NaCl.

OMG, I totally never noticed that before. If I had, I definitely would not have bought it. I'm on a strict engineered diet.

Also, I notice it has an expiration date that is worn off. Should I be worried these inorganic chemicals might be getting stale or growing mold?

 

[DaveE]

OMG, I totally never noticed that before. If I had, I definitely would not have bought it. I'm on a strict engineered diet.

Also, I notice it has an expiration date that is worn off. Should I be worried these inorganic chemicals might be getting stale or growing mold?

Yes! Get to urgent care asap. Bring the salt with you and insist on lab tests (for you AND the salt). Then make sure you tell us what the doctor said. We may have old salt too.

 

[symbolipoint]

I have cooked meat without marinating but added just some seasonings.
I have marinated meat and then some two or four hours later cooked the meat. These were usually of a better flavor and sometimes more pleasant to chew.

I really prefer mixing a rub, spreading the rub onto the meat, refrigerate for four to six hours, and then cook it (the treated meat - not just the rub). This also results in good flavor.

 

[symbolipoint]

Here is a better idea, in case you are worried that marinating is ineffective. Make a flavorful liquid based on tomato sauce or wine and definitely spices and herbs, and STEW-COOK your meat in that. This method always gives a very pleasant resulting flavor to the meat.

 

[Rive]

We took the chicken breasts, shaved off the amount the marinade had gone in – the outer three milliliters – and roasted them along with other chicken breasts that had not been marinated. We had people taste them. No one could taste any difference at all.

These kind of 'experiments' just getting on my nerves.
That three millimeters - together with the part which leaves the meat and get roasted together with the marinate - makes the difference: and then they remove the difference to prove that there is no difference.

Marvelous.

 

[BvU]

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