Okun argument against relativistic mass - pedagogy

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of mass in the context of dynamics and the approach of using the relativistic mass. However, it is acknowledged that this concept is questionable and a more rigorous approach is through direct development of the expression for momentum. The conversation also mentions the late professor Okun and provides links to his work on this topic. There is also a mention of a paper by Kareem Chin and a Physics Today article.
  • #1
houlahound
908
223
this wiki link is down. does anyone know the title of the Okun paper or have a link?

"For many years it was conventional to enter the discussion of dynamics through derivation of the relativistic mass, that is the mass–velocity relation, and this is probably still the dominant mode in textbooks. More recently, however, it has been increasingly recognized that relativistic mass is a troublesome and dubious concept. [See, for example, https://www.worldscientific.com/phy_etextbook/6833/6833_02.pdf .]... The sound and rigorous approach to relativistic dynamics is through direct development of that expression for momentum that ensures conservation of momentum in all frames:"

cheers
 
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  • #3
I have never read the original so this may be it.

thank youETA - skimmed it, looks totally what I was expecting.
 
  • #6
The late professor Okun came here about 3* years ago to question us about this topic. It's nice to see his work gets credit from continuous interest by students.

*Actually 4, see the link in my post below.
 
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  • #7
DanielMB said:
You have also this more complete Okun's article : https://arxiv.org/abs/0808.0437v1

Yes that is complete as it gets for sure.

Downloaded, thanks.
 
  • #8
dextercioby said:
The late professor Okun came here about 3 years ago to question us about this topic. It's nice to see his work gets credit from continuous interest by students.

Who was he, what was he like?

Sometimes its hard for me to think of people I am so amazed by like many of the folk that post here doing just mundane stuff like going to the store to buy milk, bread and a newspaper etc.

In many ways we are so much all the same but some are just so good and advanced at what they do I can only marvel at them and wonder how.
 

1. What is the Okun argument against relativistic mass?

The Okun argument against relativistic mass states that the concept of mass increasing with velocity in special relativity is not necessary and can lead to confusion in pedagogy. Instead, mass should be viewed as an invariant quantity in all reference frames.

2. Why is the Okun argument important in the context of pedagogy?

The Okun argument highlights the importance of clear and consistent teaching of fundamental concepts in physics. By understanding the concept of mass as an invariant quantity, students can better grasp the principles of special relativity and avoid confusion or misconceptions.

3. How does the Okun argument affect our understanding of relativistic mass?

The Okun argument challenges the traditional understanding of relativistic mass as a quantity that increases with velocity. It suggests that this concept is not necessary and can be replaced with the concept of invariant mass, which simplifies the understanding and application of special relativity.

4. What are some common misconceptions about relativistic mass and the Okun argument?

One common misconception is that the concept of relativistic mass is incorrect or invalid. However, the Okun argument does not reject the concept entirely, but rather suggests a different way of understanding and teaching it. Another misconception is that the Okun argument implies that mass is not conserved, which is not the case.

5. How does the Okun argument relate to other theories in physics?

The Okun argument is closely related to the concept of invariant mass in the theory of special relativity. It is also consistent with the principle of equivalence in general relativity, which states that the laws of physics should be the same in all inertial reference frames. Additionally, the Okun argument highlights the importance of clear and consistent pedagogy in all areas of science.

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